Comment by willseth
2 years ago
> That's just the interchange fee, not what merchants are actually paying.
What you pay Stripe is for the combination of interchange fees + Stripe's own service fees. The Stripe service component of the fee would be charged regardless. Whatever markup a merchant makes for Stripe's fees are not recoverable and irrelevant to the comparison.
By comparison, Stripe charges 0.8% + $0.00 for ACH, which includes any costs they might be paying to the bank, so the upper bound on the cost of their services is 0.8%. 4.4% - 0.8% is 3.6%.
Identify a payment processor that a small business making e.g. $60,000/year in $20 credit card transactions can use that would charge lower fees, if you can.
You're making a huge assumption that their markup is the same for credit card transactions! You're also making broad oversimplified assumptions about the what merchants do in response to transaction fees. Multiple implausible things need to be true for high end card users to be losing out on this scheme. Most likely the high end users come out at least slightly ahead and most of the cost is borne by lower end users and merchants.
> You're making a huge assumption that their markup is the same for credit card transactions!
We can take this from the other end though. A merchant who accepts ACH via Stripe pays 0.8%, one who accepts $20 on a credit card through Stripe pays 4.4%, so the merchant pays 3.6% more with a credit card than ACH, and 4.4% more than accepting physical cash. It doesn't matter how much of each is Stripe's profit unless there is some competitor a small business could use to process credit cards for less. Is there?
> You're also making broad oversimplified assumptions about the what merchants do in response to transaction fees.
In a competitive market, increasing every competitor's costs would cause them to pass on most/all of the costs, because the competition is keeping margins thin and their alternative is to go out of business. This is not an oversimplification, it's what actually happens in real commodity markets.
> Multiple implausible things need to be true for high end card users to be losing out on this scheme.
All that's required to happen is that the merchants are passing on more of the credit card processing fees than the amount of the rewards. Since the fees are higher than the rewards, this is not that implausible.
4 replies →
> What you pay Stripe is for the combination of interchange fees + Stripe's own service fees.
Yeah, Stripe is a bad example. Because Stripe is a payment service provider. They take all the various fees involved with managing payments and package it up, then put a pretty bow on top with some useful services, APIs, nice marketing. But this package deal is significantly marked up. Stripe absorbs the variable interchange fees and different rewards card markups because they are charging you 3% flat (more or less) and have a healthy margin in for themselves in the middle. Stripe makes a little less when you charge a Platinum AMEX, but they make a relative ton when you charge a secured mastercard. They know that less than 10% of the transactions are these higher cost cards, so they just absorb the lower profit on those transactions.
This is a wholly different game than lower level payment processors. For example at a company I worked for about a decade ago, we stuck a deal with WorldPay which is the largest payment provider in the world. We were paying interchange fees, a small fraud fee of a few cents, and then a worldpay fee of 20-40 basis points depending on the card. We were directly charged more on a premium rewards card, but the margin on WorldPay was a few basis points above cost. But they provided nothing really in terms of services. We had to find our own payment software, terminals, and everything else. They were just the raw service.
So imagine worldpay on one side, which is just brokering with the banks and requiring us to do everything else. On the other extreme, you have Stripe which is "turnkey" and you can sign up with zero sales volume on a pretty website. One is interchange + 30 basis points, the other extreme is a flat 3%+20¢.
Stripe is a great business. But not a good example here. They essentially abstract away all the complexity in this article by charging you more money (their raw negotiated cost with banks is probably 0.8-1.2% on 90% of their transactions), they are marking up 1-2% for themselves as a service provider. That is not to vilify Stripe. They serve a valuable role and the abstraction layers (SaaS subscriptions, free trials, etc) are well worth it for a lot of companies. But keep in mind, this is a service company on top of the credit card system. So its not a great example in this discussion.