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Comment by ChoGGi

7 months ago

I do like the idea of the sawstop, but in Canada at least. They're quite a bit more then a few hundred dollars: 700 CAD vs 2200 CAD.

https://www.amazon.ca/BOSCH-GTS15-10-Jobsite-Gravity-Rise-Wh...

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/power-tools/saws/...

SawStop saws don't cost what they do just because of the brake technology. They're just, in general, even if you took away the safety technology, built to a high end standard. Certainly the safety tech will add to the cost, but probably not as much as you'd think.

  • Ah—like how if you glanced at caster-equipped fridge drawers, you might think they add $1,000 to the price of a fridge, because only higher-end ones have them, but if they were (for some reason) legally mandated they’d only add like $5-$10 to low-end refrigerators. But, without the mandate, no option for a $400 fridge with nice drawers.

    Maybe not that extreme, but similar dynamic.

    • Appliances are made in groups of 3 - the stripper, the luxury, and the one medium.

      1. stripper - gets people into the showroom because of the low price

      2. luxury - for the people who are not price sensitive and just want the best. This generates a lot of profit with little added cost to manufacture

      3. medium - people see the stripper and upgrade to the medium, but aren't interested in the luxury price. This is where the bulk of the sales and profits come from

      This is called "bracketing" and you'll see it all over the place. Airline seats, for example.

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Which is a point frequently raised by those not supporting this regulatory action - will this cause the base price of a saw to skyrocket beyond what average individuals can afford?

My guess is probably not. The brake cartridge is roughly a hundred bucks, retail. The sensor system can’t possibly be more than a hundred bucks. And there will have to be some quality improvements to the rest of the saw in order to be better withstand the crazy decceleration forces. The bottom end of saws will proportionally be more expensive, but even this will quickly race to the bottom.

  • You're assuming that's how pricing works. If I make a product and my COG goes up $100, I don't increase my MSRP by $100, I increase it by $200.

Just to add; they do have a cheaper portable for 1100. I think it's a great idea for hobbyists with properly dried wood.

On a jobsite pretty much all your wood is wet, it'll be standard practice to leave the safety off or 150 CAD for a new stop (and time wasted). Not to mention you don't stop working just because of a little rain.

question is how much are your fingers worth

  • "It's just one additional requirement; it won't break the bank"....this logic, applied over and over by building construction regulators for the past few decades, is an underappreciated but important contributor to the housing affordability crisis. Everyone talks about zoning, but building codes, etc are a big issue too.

    • Most of the building codes were written in blood - either that of the construction crew (in the case of site safety regulations) or that of the eventual owner (in the case of fire standards and suchlike). In both cases, long term costs should be reduced - lower insurance for developer and owner, less rebuilding burnt out shells, less earthquake damage, etc.

      The regulations that weren't written in blood generally fall into the "zoning" discussion. Stuff like parking minimums, set-backs, etc.

      The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that straddles the line is the requirement to have two staircases in low-rise apartment buildings. This is a uniquely (US)American code. Nominally to manage fire risk. But much of Europe and Canada manage with one staircase and improvements in building materials that reduce the risk of a fire starting before fast egress is necessary.

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    • >Everyone talks about zoning, but building codes, etc are a big issue too.

      In every single place where housing is "unaffordable", a literal empty plot of land is also unaffordable. It has very little to do with what it costs to build a tiny shed. This is also why "tiny houses" and "3D printed houses" are nonsense and have done nothing to improve the situation.

      The problem has nothing to do with the fact that the outlet next to the bathroom sink requires a GFCI device, or that you need a separate flue for your pellet stove, and everything to do with a small plot of land being a couple hundred thousand dollars despite literally being a forest.

      The homeless aren't being kicked out/arrested because their tents aren't up to code, they are being kicked out/arrested because they do not have a plot of land they are legally allowed to pitch that tent on.

  • The vast majority of tablesaw users don't lose fingers. How much is avoiding a 1/100000 chance of losing a finger to you? Probably a lot less than $500.

    • Not just loss, but permanent damage. A good friend jammed his thumb into a table saw, only lost the "fatty" tip, but there's permanent nerve damage, so increased risk of burn or other future injury. So, that was on the mild end of possibly injury, but still cost a small fortune to fix (still required surgery) plus a lifetime of lost function (albeit only a small loss).

    • > The vast majority of tablesaw users don't lose fingers.

      Practically every single person I know who does "woodworking" has some finger injury from a saw--generally the table saw. It's north of 75%.

  • Almost 20 years of never coming close to losing a finger, I pay attention when I'm doing anything dangerous.

    • Have you spent 20 years using a table saw most days of your working life? I think some of this centers around people who use saws day in and day out, to the point they spend a significant part of their working life using a saw when fatigued.

      I don't have strong opinions on this change. I've used a table saw for years as a homeowner, and I always leave the guards on. I've never seen a table saw on a job site with the guards on.

      I'd be curious to know what percentage of the people injured by table saws owned the saw that they got hurt on. How many are workers who didn't choose which saw to buy?

    • There is a zero percent chance you have paid 100% attention 100% of the time. A lot of accidents happen when two (or more) edge cases collide. The wind slams a door shut at the same moment that the blade catches a knot in the wood.

      It's foolish to be a human and think you have the abilities of a robot.