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Comment by solatic

10 months ago

Revenue is no match for throwing massive bags of money at the marketing bonfire. Subsidizing open-source projects is ultimately a marketing spend - sounds like the marketing budget is getting cut.

Unlike other kinds of marketing, though, you can get a lot of bad press for cutting the budget for this one.

  • Is it fair though?

    While I think them ending support from a day to another is terrible (should've given much more time to address it) at the end of the day they have put lots of money in open source ecosystem and hired plenty of devs to work on their own projects (not even Vercel's).

    • I’d say in this case it’s fair for them (or anybody else in a similar position) to get some nonzero amount of negative press, just as a matter of disincentivising the behaviour in question. Putting out a fair nonzero quantity of negative press, though, is not something humanity has figured out—the amount of bashing one receives for doing something bad (in the same general class of bad things) is always fairly random.

      Why should they get bashed at least some? Because, if we’re treating this strictly as marketing, the deal they proposed to OSS maintainers was, basically: you spend the effort of building things on top of our non-second-sourceable offering; we give you free use of said offering; you give us marketing in the form of homepage badges, procurement suggestions at your workplace, etc. No money changed hands and no contractual obligations were accepted by the provider, but this is still very much a deal, and the porting at the outset is effectively an advance.

      So the harder it is to move away from the offering—the larger the advance—the more bashing is deserved. And Vercel is pretty hard to move away, from what I understand, certainly more so than, say, Travis CI.

      (Also, that public press release is pretty much a lie in how it attempts to leave a very misleading impression using technically true statements, and I’m never not going to be bashing people or companies for lying or bullshitting. Yes, I know it’s very common and in many cases effectively a legal necessity, I’m still not going to stop.)

      Should the other good things they’ve done mean they’re exempted from the bad press? Ideally, no: the only way to have an adequate picture of a thing is to have a fair sample of its good and bad things. Biasing the sample by hand rarely makes things better unless done with a careful and systematic approach, which the cat herd that is the press is not really capable of collectively. Practically, still no, I think: there are enough of those kinds of biases that I prefer to avoid piling up more as a general principle.

      Finally, would it be fair to go from “Vercel did bad thing” to “Vercel bad”, in view of those other good things? No, I think, but I wasn’t suggesting that. I did adjust my idea of their trustworthiness down fairly heavily, though. (It is possible to do good, even well-intentioned things and at the same time not operate your service in a reliable or trustworthy way.)

> Subsidizing open-source projects is ultimately a marketing spend

They say 2M in Vercel credits. How much is that in actual money?

  • Credits isn't the same thing as either revenue or costs. Look at kids pirating Photoshop and Maya to learn the tools and make cool shit - that's not really lost revenue, because kids just don't have that kind of money to spend on professional tools to begin with. Most open source projects taking Vercel credits don't have the money to pay Vercel in the absence of credits, so this doesn't result in lost revenue. And it's not the same as costs, because if it did, then Vercel wouldn't be making a profit.

    The only reasonable way to track this is to understand how much each customer costs (in servers, hardware, etc) and internally attribute those costs to marketing instead of revenue.