Comment by mozball
1 year ago
Google et al pour billions annually into making android a first-class and dominant mobile OS. I think the FOSS community should leverage that and focus on liberating Android instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
1 year ago
Google et al pour billions annually into making android a first-class and dominant mobile OS. I think the FOSS community should leverage that and focus on liberating Android instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
It's impossible because of hardware attestation. Until something is done for that (and "legal" seems the only way), there is no solution
GrapheneOS is attempting to pursue the "legal" way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41119047
I'm aware, I'm really rooting for them
Android Virtualization Framework with pKVM on Pixel 7+ can technically allow unmodified Linux VMs to run in parallel with "official" VMs that pass hardware attestation. This feature is not yet exposed to end-users.
The point is that apps you need to run will only do so in the "official" VMs that pass hardware attestation and will intentionally fail in the unmodified Linux VMs.
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Google is clamping on that freedom by providing ways to detect when you run unauthorized/liberated software (i.e. root or custom ROM)
Your banking app is not going to work on Linux either. If Android is fundamentally broken then fork it. My point is, it seem smarter/easier to take Android and make it more linux-like than to take Linux and make it more Android-like. All the work is already done and paid for. Sailing with the wind vs sailing against the wind.
edit : Unless the goal is also to benefit the linux desktop ecosystem (the whole convergence meme)
This is why it's so worrying that browsers are getting the same treatment. Attestation/WEI will bring this to the desktop (and mobile browser for that matter) and you'll have to use Chrome or an approved Chrome reskin (every other browser, basically) for most things.
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> Your banking app is not going to work on Linux either
Why is that? I can use my bank through Linux via a web browser without issue. Logging in more frequently is a hassle but not a bad trade IMO.
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> If Android is fundamentally broken then fork it. My point is, it seem smarter/easier to take Android and make it more linux-like than to take Linux and make it more Android-like.
That's what LineageOS (née CyanogenMod) tries to do, and what this leads to in practice is force them to depend on a heap of proprietary code (downstream kernels and userspace blobs). Outside of that, the work that's "done" on the AOSP/LineageOS UI layers and supporting software/"apps" is relatively easy to port over to Desktop Linux - the GNOME Mobile UX is actually making great progress from that POV. So I'm quite skeptical about your proposed approach.
> Your banking app is not going to work on Linux either.
I think the idea is that no amount of forking Android is going to produce something different enough to entice developers to port their apps to it, but maybe if an entirely new Linux-based mobile platform kicks off, there's a chance?
If you have to consult `developer.android.com` (a Google-owned domain) to develop for your "totally not Android" platform, it may be difficult to avoid the temptation to do as the documentation recommends and simply embrace proprietary Google services and hardware attestation and whatnot. After all, 99% of users have those things and it's just these several weird forks that don't?
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