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Comment by aucisson_masque

24 days ago

I don't get it, for me a computer is a tool. I want to get away from it as fast as possible, having to tweak the environment is a waste of time .

That's why I like macos so much, nothing is perfect but I know that whatever I do there are tools somewhat easy to use .

For instance I wanted to read an epub on my computer that runs windows, believe it or not but finding a good or even descent epub reader is a nightmare. Wasted a lot of time before settling on FB reader.

On mac, you just have the book app. It's not perfect, when you export highlights for instance it always add 'copyright blabla' but it's good enough for my casual reading.

Same for pdf, you want an app that can read pdf and do some basic stuff like reorganize pages or compress them. On Mac there is preview, on windows ? Edge can just read and it's a browser, adobe is paid software and install a lot of junk.

And you repeat that for basically everything it's such a waste of time.

Linux is even worst than windows on that matter.

If you are looking for that kind of 'experience' like the author, i suggest hitting yourself on the balls with a hammer. That would be quicker.

> for me a computer is a tool. [...] having to tweak the environment is a waste of time.

In woodworking and other circles, there are folks who only buy the best-est, most expensive tools money can buy. Then there are folks who take regular tools and modify them for the job at hand, creating a better tool that money can't buy.

Point is, there are many kinds of folks out there and if you need a good ball-hitting hammer - well you won't find THAT at Home Depot, but someone creative could probably put together something better.

Folks have been espousing the quality, stock software that macOS and iOS sports as the final word on this conversation since a while now. (And almost always, focusing on the epub readers). I'll admit that it's a general leg up for the getting started UX and makes it easier to recommend to grandma but it's not really that big of a deal as you make it out to be. And yes, I also hate having to configure shit.

Sure, you have to spend some time to find the best tools at first but it's not really something you have to do regularly. This goes for Windows, Linux and Android, I've been using the same few apps for basic computing tasks for a decade now on all of these platforms and I can confidently most are still the community's choice in their niche. Truly, aren't SumatraPDF, Calibere and MoonReader a web search away?

And sure, the app stores on these platforms are a relative mess but it sure does seem the larger useebase they're serving is getting along fine. And not to mention the many other cases where you'll actually have to pay for some basic utility on macOS. Apple products are generally the best in class, don't get me wrong but this is hardly the differentiator the way I look at it.

  • > Truly, aren't SumatraPDF, Calibere and MoonReader a web search away?

    I already knew about them, but just take a look. Their interface are, to say the least, ugly and no consistency ever. UI is not just about the look, it also helps a user understand quickly and efficiently how to do things.

    > And not to mention the many other cases where you'll actually have to pay for some basic utility on macOS.

    It's better to have paid app than nothing or lackluster. If forklift for instance was available on windows I would definitely pay for it. Instead you have file Zilla and winscp, that are free, but damn it's a pain going from one elegant software to an ugly, not really thought, one.

> Linux is even worst than windows on that matter.

You won’t use Linux because calibre isn’t pre-installed?

Funny, that's precisely why I much prefer Linux over MacOS and Windows—I don't have time to fiddle with stuff all day long. On MacOS and Windows, to get any software, I have to:

1. search around the web to find a good program for a given task, crossing my fingers that it's not going to be malware

2. track down the download link for the software, then download the package

3. unzip the installer, open it, then click "yes I'm aware that this is a program downloaded from the Internet and I accept all the risks," thereby making me feel a little nervous about the whole transaction

4. choose the install location, install type, and so on, click "next," "next," "next," then scroll through a seemingly endless legal agreement by which I legally agree to god-knows-what

5. use the program, but inevitably endure an onslaught of annoyances from it: pop-ups that push me to buy the premium version, pop-ups that tell me to download and install an update for the program (for which I need to go through steps 1-4 all over again); the list goes on and on

And to make matters worse, each program asks me individually to update it, meaning that if I'm using 10 programs, I have to handle 10 separate update requests, with no way to batch them all.

In contrast, how do you install a program on Linux? `apt install some-program` or equivalent. How you upgrade all your software at once? `apt upgrade`. That's it. I don't have this epub problem you have—I just use Foliate. And PDF readers are aplenty, too. If you use GNOME or KDE, most of that is already installed for you. At most, it's one or two clicks away, in GNOME Software, for example.

Microsoft's Edge browser used to have epub support. Then they removed it. Then they put it back again but hidden behind a command-line switch. Then they took it away again. It's mad.

When you're driving and you see people running, do you have the same reaction?

> I don't get it ... it's such a waste of time

After all, there are indeed more comfortable ways to get from point A to B.

The sheer lack of useful software in a stock Windows install has always been a bit baffling to me. Linux is better in this regard (depending on distribution), but nothing beats macOS for time from fresh install to usability. Not only does it come with most of the basics covered, apps like Mail don’t favor Apple’s services, unlike on Windows where MS can’t pass up the chance to upsell an MS service.

  • Exactly, and it's the same for Android.

    I was surprised going from Android to iOS how iphone are much more open despite everyone saying it's a closed ecosystem.

    On Android to sync my calendar and contacts I need to install a third party app called davx that updates every 30 minutes, meanwhile iOS and macos supports natively icloud but also exchange, google, caldav (standard protocol).

    Just having the equivalent of macos mail app on windows would cost me 60$ (em client). A pdf app that actually allow basic pdf organization, that's another 60$ with pdf xchange editor, and so on and so on.

> descent epub reader

I found Sumatra PDF to be great, at least at rendering / reading comfort.

  • Ugly as hell, can't make light edit like remove or add page, compress pdf.

    It's all free in macos preview app and it just works.

    No one want to spend 30 minutes looking for website that allow to compress pdf because it's a slightly too big to be sent through email...

    • The Books app is even better! But a programmer it's just as quick to run shrinkpdf in a Linux terminal, and, well, more ascetic.

      I do think Sumatra PDF is good for Windows software, it's not bloated and it's fast.

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