Comment by lisper
2 months ago
In a way having money makes it harder because it makes it harder to blame your unhappiness on your circumstances.
2 months ago
In a way having money makes it harder because it makes it harder to blame your unhappiness on your circumstances.
Yep. I am not even rich. In fact compared to US software engineers I am making pennies, but I am hitting above average for where I live. And at times it is hard to find meaning in every day life. I like my job, but realistically I could quit now and just about coast with my savings for the rest of my life. On other hand I could increase my spending and live more luxurious life style, but that isn't for me. I just like to code, play video games, and be alone in peace and quiet.
Almost at that point myself. Thinking about doing another year or two to save up an additional buffer, and make sure we're not right before another 2008-like event before I pull the plug. Start my own company, maybe make some money, maybe not. I'm tired of the grind. I'm tired every single day, and there's no time or energy to try to fix it. At this point I just want to be left alone, in peace and quiet...
Honestly, if I ever reach the point where my savings would keep me comfortable with a pension to look forward to pick up the slack at the end, I'd quit my job and just focus on my interests, providing a clean house and having a good meal ready in the evening for my wife and son, and develop some side gigs I can give up if they don't give me fulfilment.
As it is, I am acutely aware of my privileges as part of a household with two IT-based incomes and not too many worries, and that the world being what it is right now is giving rise to so many uncertainties that I wouldn't dream of abandoning this unless I had a really big bag of money like the author.
The big question for me has become health insurance. Yes, I know ACA plans are a thing I just <side eyes incoming administration> don't trust it not to be messed with. Protections for preexisting conditions are the only reason retirement is even an eventual possibility for me.
I worry that I don't have enough of a life outside of work to make retirement fulfilling, and actually, I don't actually mind working if I'm completely honest. I just never liked the stress of needing a job.
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> Honestly, if I ever reach the point where my savings would keep me comfortable ... I'd quit my job and just focus on my interests
Pretty much everyone says this, but surprisingly few people actually seem to succeed at it when push-comes-to-shove
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> > but that isn't for me. I just like to code, play video games, and be alone in peace and quiet.
Lack of desires is the first canary in the coal mine of a decrease in mood.
As much as it sounds empty those who are able to distinguish between a 500$ TV and a 5000$ one have a very fine tuned sense of desire which doesn't collapse at the tail end.
Nothing wrong with that. I find creating and supporting creators to be fulfilling.
100% - it takes away your hope. In this case, that by "making it" in the world of startups will fill the void in your life.
Yeah. When you have to work in order to live, it is easy to make the mistake of thinking that you would be happy if only you had money to quit your job and time do the things you want to do.
Once you get there, you have to face reality: while being poor leads to unhappiness, being financially independent does not lead to happiness either. Don't believe me? Look at billionaires out there; do all of them look like happy and well-adjusted people to you? Not naming names.
And that's why wealthy celebrities repeat again and again that "Money doesn't buy happiness". It's because they know from experience that it really doesn't help all that much.
I'm not sure I'm convinced. I guess I haven't had real money.
I had > 1m at one point. It was enough not to work. It wasn't enough to experiment with random things without risk. Couldn't buy a house in NYC,SF,LA,Seattle. Would just have to go back to work. Couldn't start a business for a project that required 10-20 people. Couldn't really start co-working space for 20-40 people at current rent prices without feeling like I'd probably just be throwing away a few hundred k.
What I could do is travel. Could also live anywhere for a few years.
OTOH, if I had F.U. money, I would do those things and more. I might hire people to do them. There are 5 to 10 apps I'd like to see exist. Would be happy to pay some people to make them and make them open source, if I had FU money. Would love to start a tech-interactive-art museum the size of at least most major museums in big cities. Would consider funding startups.
I have one friend, x-coworker, that picked a different path than me and made lots of $$$ (no idea how much). But, they invest in startups. Goal is to invest $1 million a year. They visit startups and pitch events once or twice a month. They also have a personal project. Otherwise they travel with their S.O. and visit their adult kids around the world.
> OTOH, if I had F.U. money, I would do those things and more
I get what you mean, but having enough not to work is the definition of FU money. It means you can just drop your things and leave when the boss demands you something you're not willing to do.
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> OTOH, if I had F.U. money, I would do those things and more
Sure, there's no lack of things that one can do with money. But would you be substantially happier? That's the issue at hand. Do you look at people with exorbitant wealth and see unlimited happiness? Do they appear to be in a permanent state of contentment and satisfaction?
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Check out "TeamLab Planets TOKYO DMM.com". Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeamLab_Planets_TOKYO_DMM.com
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Hah, the only time I had that kind of money was the 10 minutes my bank transferred the loan amount to my bank account so I could transfer it to the housing company. It didn't really feel like mine though, since they were both breathing over my neck to check I actually did so xD
1m is more then enough for some people to not work. You may need to be willing to be frugal and change your ideas about what comprises a good lifestyle.
I suppose it depends on a person. I am pretty sure the more money I have started to make throughout my life the happier I have become. Simply because of having more freedom over how I spend my time. I feel like there is almost infinite amount of things to do in this World, I just wish I was able to 24/7 do those things. I don't have enough to not work for rest of my life, but I have been able to buy my own apartment, house, which has given me a lot of confidence in my self and feelings of freedom. I started out with no connections or education though.
I am sure it can be different for everyone, people see the World differently.
All that sounds sadly familiar. Once you cross the threshold of not having to work for a living, the illusion fades away.
You are still you, your problems are still there, you are still bound to a slowly decaying body, there's no GAME OVER banner and credit roll proving that you have won the game of life. Because you haven't. Hah.
You can of course keep yourself entertained with all sorts of stupid stuff that doesn't actually matter. Or you can accept that there are still only a handful of things that bring people contentment, and you don't need to be financially independent to do any of them. I'm talking about bland obvious stuff like spending some time with loved ones (including pets and plants), going out for a walk in the park, etc. Unsurprisingly, a ton of retirees do just that. It's not because they are old and can't do anything else, it's because they have finally figured out what works.
And it's not like doing five times as much of that stuff is going to make you five times happier, either. Anybody with a full time job can carve out some quality time instead of arguing with strangers online.
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I think that is most people's experience but it only works up to a point. you will get diminishing returns the more money you have until, in some cases, maybe negative returns.
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> I just wish I was able to 24/7 do those things
Wait, you don't?
Do you have less than 24 hours a day to do things?
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Money doesn’t buy happiness but most people are subjected to artificial misery by this society and money does make that go away… at least, a fair share of it, probably 80 percent.
That said, a lot of people who get rich, because status is their real motivation, are shocked by how horrible society still is. At first they get hooked on the drug of high social status, but then they learn to see through the flattery and realize that nothing has truly changed, and they’re just as miserable as before. It tends to take about two years, in my observation, for the “new life energy” to wear off. Money teaches you that there isn’t some “better” society to aspire to. The people “up there” aren’t the supervillains Redditers imagine billionaires to be, but they’re not better either.
My daughter is autistic and when she started to learn how to read social cues she realized that her so-called friends didn’t actually like her, which I suspected myself but never had the chutzpah to say, and it made her angry. Getting rich has a similar “learn what people are really about” curse.
> Money doesn’t buy happiness but most people are subjected to artificial misery by this society and money does make that go away… at least, a fair share of it, probably 80 percent.
I've been the young immigrant who arrived to a foreign country with the clothes on his back and whatever fits in a suitcase; occasionally splurging by buying used clothes at a thrift shop and buying a slice of cake at the supermarket once a month. If anything, I was probably happier then: healthy and hopeful for a better future. Now I'm in significantly worse health and rather jaded.
Thank you for sharing your own experience.
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society subjects people to artificial misery? society is all we have, it's the most authentic misery you'll ever experience.
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>supervillains Redditers imagine billionaires to be
Sure, they are just people like you and me. Doesn't mean their mere existence isn't evidence of a major flaw in our implementation of capitalism. Our society is becoming far too stratified. Healthcare should be a right at this point in our society's development, it's a stain on our country that we still carry on with a system that works for nobody except health insurance CEOs.
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What research there is suggests money/happiness follows a log-linear relationship.[1] So it kind of does buy happiness, but the rate of increase falls off pretty fast over the range most of us experience.
1: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2208661120
It's like that old saying, "where ever you go...there you are."
Yup. Jon Kabat-Zinn wrote a great book with the same title.
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> Money doesn't buy happiness
Yeah, but it let's you suffer in relative comfort which is the most that anyone can realisically strive for.
> suffer in relaive comfort which is the most that anyone can realisically strive for
If you have never met a person who is content with their life you may benefit from expanding your social circle. There are sincerely happy people out there.
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Unhappy for different reasons is not the same.
Being unhappy because you are homeless is not the same being unhappy because some woman doesn't treat you like she would do a man who looks better than you are just two different things.
What a load. Only someone who has always had money would say this
That is the entire point.
Money removes unhappiness and raises you to a baseline, but after that it doesn't provide extra happiness in and of it self.
It can, if you use it wisely. It's just not that you eat the money yourself, you apply it to things you want to do. That could be buying guitars, or it could be setting up solar panels in Ghana. There's a lot of things you can do with money.
Correct, because only by having money can most people understand the situation. You've proven this yourself by calling it "a load".
Zen monks have attained this understanding without the need to make the money first however.
No, you cannot make the comparison between having money and not having money if you have never not had money. If you have always had money, you have never known the difficulty of living without it.
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