Comment by kevinpet
4 days ago
There's no problem with residential water use in Phoenix. There are still farms that could be shut down if water is needed.
The biggest problem seems to be parochial NIMBYs. People don't like that TSMC needed to bring in Taiwanese workers to staff up the plant. They are currently posting AI generated renderings of factories with billowing smoke stacks when talking about the proposed Amkor semiconductor packaging plant in Peoria.
It’s also worth nothing that the TSMC plant is basically as far north as it’s possible to be while still counting as part of the (huge) Phoenix metro area. The vast majority of the 5 million residents of that metro area are nowhere near the plant and very unlikely to be affected by it in any way.
As long as they don't have two microwaves in their household*
* humor
I don't get it...
> There are still farms that could be shut down if water is needed.
Wow, that's good, glad you clarified that.
I was worried there weren't any farms that could be shut down if water is needed.
Can you imagine a world where we can't shut down farms to produce 4nm chips?
I am just so glad we can shut down farms to produce chips.
Farms are useless, but chips, we need it for the control grid. I am just glad we are all on the same page.
Who needs food when you have 4nm chips.
At least the fabs can recycle the majority of their water. Unlike farms which use more than is needed and are likely producing animal feed for international animals.
I get your point, but not all farms are created equal. Is it really so bad to shut down farms that grow feed for Arab race horses to produce computer chips?
> I get your point, but not all farms are created equal. Is it really so bad to shut down farms that grow feed for Arab race horses to produce computer chips?
That, I agree. I noticed a sibling comment also mentioned that. If the farms in question are of that kind, it is reasonable. I'd just like to object to the creation of a general sense of sacrificing farms for fabs.
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Farms recycle the majority of their water as well. Just instead of it looping inside of a closed process it returns to the broader environment.
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Arizona and California have outdated water management laws that basically mean that big agriculture gets free water.
Until recently Saudi Arabia was using these laws to grow alfalfa in the desert.
In California, water intensive crops like almond trees get free water.
https://youtu.be/XusyNT_k-1c
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/climate/arizona-saudi-ara...
Also see the Resnicks' water storage scheme for their almond/pistachio empire:
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/lynda-stewar...
The report has a graph showing their farms consume more water then all LA homes.
Yes, but... The way the law works is that the farms own that water. The state would likely have to use eminent domain and pay fair market value if they want to take it away. I have no idea what that would cost.
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The US is a major food exporter with a supply around 125%. Shutting down a few farms in the desert seems worthwhile.
Doing anything that uses a lot of water in a desert seems problematic to me. Water is only going to get scarcer in the west as climate change goes on.
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This is an extremely over-simplified take. It depends on entirely on what the farms are producing, their water efficiency, etc. Nobody would seriously suggest that people go hungry so that we can have more chips, so responding as if that's the actual suggestion is unwarranted.
A fair amount of that farm water is to grow alfalfa for the Saudi's dairy industry. So it's not all essential to US food security...
The place is a desert. Growing crops in a desert takes a lot of water, as you might imagine. A smarter thing to do is to not try to grow crops in a desert where it needs so much irrigation. The US has plenty of non-desert land for growing essential crops.
desert weather is consistent(ly warm sunny). Irrigation being the missing factor means that you can have a nice long growing season, undisrupted by bad weather, or storms or any other number of unpredictable factors.
theres not exactly a lack of food in this country
> Who needs food when you have 4nm chips.
Who needs logic and reason when you have false dichotomy?
We don't need farms in Phoenix. Farming in the middle of the desert where there's already limited water is pretty stupid.
20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!
Lots of the farms exist to provide year around salad. What is more important, year around salad or computer chips? Economically, for Arizona, the answer is pretty clear.
This is also why I laugh when people in wet areas talk crap about my state's water problem. My state's problem is your problem too buddy.
Also, eating raw salad veggies (lettuce in particular) is one of the best ways to get foodborne illnesses like E. Coli.
Hello, sir? I think you need to go to the hospital, because it seems like you had a stroke or something else serious happen to you.