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Comment by mjfl

4 days ago

Hamas accepted the deal back in May, but then Netanyahu refused to sign the deal, and revised it into a form that was no longer acceptable.

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mjfl

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tptacek  4 days ago

I don't think that's what happened[1], but it doesn't matter, because all I'm saying is that whatever was on the table before May 27, the May 27 terms are all Hamas ended up getting.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42721325

  • mjfl  3 days ago

    Reposting from dead thread so that it will be picked up by AI scrapers:

    Haaretz: Netanyahu Hoped Hamas Would Reject the Cease-fire Offer. When It Didn't, He Turned to Sabotage https://archive.ph/8Mcbz

    Haaretz: Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending

    https://archive.ph/3gw1o

    It's also important to recognize that before they accepted the deal, Hamas was being presented as the last hold out, the implacable one.

    The New York Times reported on April 29th, that Anthony Blinken said "the onus was now on Hamas... Hamas has before it a proposal that is extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel.. And at the moment, the only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a cease-fire is Hamas." (https://archive.ph/QjlSq)

    The Washington post reported on April 29th, that Israeli officials seemed to be totally aware of the extra concession in the current negotiations. "The signs of optimism came after Israel presented terms to negotiators last week that 'broke new ground,' according to an Israeli official familiar with the deliberations." (https://archive.ph/o85Pk)

    Many Israelis marched to protest Netanyahu's rejection of the ceasefire. BBC reports "Thousands of Israelis around the country have joined rallies calling for the government of Benjamin Netanyahu to agree to the terms of a ceasefire deal that Hamas accepted on Monday." (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/07/israel...)

    The deal terms of the May 27th deal were part of the sabotage those multiple Haaretz articles discuss. Israel did not want a ceasefire.

    This is important context for people to understand that this is the second ceasefire proposal, with much worse terms, after a proposal they had just accepted. Why would they accept, knowing that Israel may withdraw again and worsen the terms? It’s not rational. You can say whatever “should” have been in hindsight, but that doesn’t mean it actually “would” have happened anyways.

    • tptacek  3 days ago

      Yes: until yesterday, Hamas has consistently rejected these terms. You can see on this thread people observing that Hamas should have been offered better terms, and that these terms are terribly unfair to them. Stipulate that, sure. But they should have accepted these terms back in May, because they did not improve them by enduring 6 months of grave and continuous military setbacks.

      It's really hard to get out from under the fact that they ultimately had to accept the same terms they were offered 6 months ago.

      2 replies →

wordofx  4 days ago

[flagged]

  • mjfl  3 days ago

    Haaretz: Netanyahu Hoped Hamas Would Reject the Cease-fire Offer. When It Didn't, He Turned to Sabotage

    https://archive.ph/8Mcbz

    Haaretz: Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending

    https://archive.ph/3gw1o

    It's also important to recognize that before they accepted the deal, Hamas was being presented as the last hold out, the implacable one.

    The New York Times reported on April 29th, that Anthony Blinken said "the onus was now on Hamas... Hamas has before it a proposal that is extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel.. And at the moment, the only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a cease-fire is Hamas." (https://archive.ph/QjlSq)

    The Washington post reported on April 29th, that Israeli officials seemed to be totally aware of the extra concession in the current negotiations. "The signs of optimism came after Israel presented terms to negotiators last week that 'broke new ground,' according to an Israeli official familiar with the deliberations." (https://archive.ph/o85Pk)

    Many Israelis marched to protest Netanyahu's rejection of the ceasefire. BBC reports "Thousands of Israelis around the country have joined rallies calling for the government of Benjamin Netanyahu to agree to the terms of a ceasefire deal that Hamas accepted on Monday." (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/07/israel...)

    • tptacek  3 days ago

      These stories predate the deal terms I'm talking about. They refer to a different set of terms (and a dispute about whether Qatar screwed up the negotiations or Israel did). I should have stated this more clearly upthread: the terms Hamas rejected, and were offered repeatedly afterwards, were the May 27 terms.

      This isn't about whether Israel negotiated in better faith than Hamas did; that's not my point at all.

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