Comment by computerthings

> these events become less relevant to each passing generation, and you don't rightfully get to decide what your great(x20) grandchildren are concerned with.

In context of you claiming the AfD is "one of the oldest parties in Germany", and Alice Weidel (AfD party leader) claiming Hitler was a communist just now, I'd say people just making shit up isn't something 20 generations into the future. And for people in the future to have the choice whether they want to be concerned about something in the past, they first have to know about it. So revisionism is right out, fundamentally. If you don't get why Germans are finicky about that, actually do read up on our history. But even generally, states have historical continuity and it matters, you can't say "I want to keep living in the borders that are there for X reason, but lie about whatever I want".

> Do you believe children are responsible for the evils of their parents? If you don't believe that, then why do believe everyone who looks a certain way in a country is responsible for what other people who look like them did many years before?

No, I believe neither, which is why I said neither.

> Demanding undeserved shame and even monetary consideration from people who have done nothing wrong is a good way to make yourself one of the most hated people in the world.

The question is "are the AfD neo-Nazis", and you come out with "they're one of the oldest parties in Germany" and now this stuff? I'll have you know that the AfD is a fan of what Israel is doing in Gaza.

> It's not up to you what lessons anyone else in the distant future will learn.

This isn't (just) about "lessons", this is about the factual reality to draw lessons from, see "revisionism" above.

> white German people are hated as a whole by at least a notable minority of every other group of Germans. Jewish Germans will be suspicious of non-Jewish Germans, especially nationalists.

Nah. I'll take your blank assertion as a white German male who was born here and just say "nah". Whatever prejudice of that kind there may be is far outweighed by everybody who enjoys the togetherness of not indulging in that shit. You know, real diversity?

There are actual problems with integration, but the AfD is not interested in or capable of helping with that. They are total neoliberal clowns, out to sell of the state and the people in it to the highest bidder, they just use foreigners as scapegoats to fatten the coffers of their actual overlords (including constantly cozying up to Putin), so decreasing social security and all that -- while talking about imaginary "woke/far-left overlords" to those who may get duped by it.. which essentially just means "people in the arena of words, which we checked out 6 decades ago to just mumble amongst ourselves, have gone too far, so SMASH THE WORDS, because we are so BACK!".

Well nope. They offer no solutions, they are exploiting issues to make them worse. Like what you write about Burkas below, you should see the horrible, rancid shit some AfD people say about women. It's way, way worse than Trump's "grab them by the pussy", I'll say that.

Integration requires having a spine, treating people firmly and fairly. The AfD do not have it in them, they cannot even stand up to scrutiny to a moderately bright German. You don't "command respect" by burning refugee homes at night, either.

> As in, "If you're not with us on immigration, you're literally a Nazi, and we don't talk to Nazis."

No, you brought up immigration. Nobody claimed the AfD are Neo-Nazis just because of that. It's just a given that they have this stance, too.

> For the Germans? That would be the cultures of many of the Muslim immigrants who want a Muslim theocracy to enforce Sharia Law and burkas for all women, for example, compared to the culture of the natives. Basically all Western cultures are incompatible with that yet our overlords keep trying to push people together with incompatible cultures that have never lived together and have no desire to live together.

Who are "our overlords"? Not just mega corporations etc, right? Because again, the AfD is fully neoliberal, they are on board with creating the conditions that allow people to see other small fish (or ominous "overlords" but never just anything to do with income tax etc.) as scapegoats.

> I don't know because I'm not German, but every group of people has its own customs. I imagine that Germans identify with many of the Western values of liberalism and democracy

Yes, which is why the AfD, who had a member dancing on the Holocaust memorial, not just criticizing it, who has people saying how they'll round up journalists and homosexuals and whatnot when they're in power, who has (along with the CDU..) people attending little secret meetings ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhoQrrfXiY ) about deporting people they don't deem German enough, does not belong. For any immigrant it's at least up to the person -- not up to you and your prejudice -- but the AfD made that decision already.

> There is a lot to the country and its people besides unfortunate events in the early 20th century.

Unfortunate events? How many concentration camps have you visited? How many relatives who lived during that time have you spoken to? How many dozens, hundreds of books have you read about it? You have no idea what you are even talking about. Adding "early" as if it makes a difference. Every city has houses where people were dragged out of them as their neighbors looked away, or were scared. The ignorance of people who "don't want to be bothered" has no weight. You want to live on the ground where this happened, preferably learn what happened -- but at the very least don't interfere with the learning of it, or you're a complete persona non grata. That goes for Germans, that goes for immigrants.

> Your question becomes far more ludicrous if you substitute anything else for "German."

Maybe, but this is about the AfD, and Germany. Germans have wondered about "what does being German even mean" for a looong time, for centuries. Since you're not a German interested in history and literature, you have no way of knowing that. But even before the Nazis, the answer for many included not so much being "liberal and democratic" but (also) cosmopolitan, that ideal is much older I'd say. That's where the whole achievements and pride stuff comes from, too: not just some Germans being super German to other Germans, or debating what that even is, but being able to to interact with and interested in the world. That's a big part of Germany, a big country smack in the middle of Europe.

It's a unique history and when Germans laugh at other Germans for pretending there is a "German-ness" everybody just knows about and agrees on, it has a reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinstaaterei

Just take the just recent reunification on top of that, too! We can talk about specific values, and specific individuals who want to live here can be asked to adhere to them. And we can talk about how to improve that. But this generic stuff about "cultures" is like Elon Musk talking about Path of Exile. He thinks what he says is reasonable, but if you actually know, you know how far off the mark it is. Even German Neo-Nazis can do nothing but deflect when asked what "German culture" is. They won't even pay lip service to "liberal democracy", they'd phrase their scapegoating of Muslims differently.

And nationalism is very different from patriotism. We had the Nazis already, there are whole libraries of really smart people having mulled over these issues, and the mechanisms of it. Of course the people who want to repeat it say learning about it is not important. Of course the people who never learned about it in the first place don't. Irrelevant.