Comment by arcticbull
5 months ago
It's going to be really interesting to see how organizations, relying on funding and/or support from the government, will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight hoping to avoid retaliation in general. I'm not sure what Elon was doing/intending to do but the resemblance is uncanny. And he did it twice, just to make sure. The first time, I was like eh, could go either way, he's made unique and enthusiastic gestures in public before before. The second one was more troubling. Certainly the kind of thing that would get you tackled to the floor by German police officers. Even if unintentional, you'd have some time to think about it and some 'splaining to do.
The "hey, maybe he's just a bit overexcited and socially awkward with his gestures" excuse would also be a lot more plausible if it was about someone who hasn't spent the last couple of years giving written and verbal encouragement to the far right, who happened to be exactly the sort of person who would see a Nazi salute as a super clever gesture that owns the libs, is deniable to the parts of his fanbase that don't like Nazis, and meets with uproarious approval with the parts of his fanbase that like Nazis. A bit like when he was tweeting out his approval of interviews describing the holocaust as "humane" and then promptly deleting when called out on it or retweeting neo-Nazis talking about Jews' "dialectical hatred against whites" as "the actual truth" but then apologising for it. Sure, mentally he probably has more in common with a 13 year old carving swastikas into their school desk because it's edgy than Himmler, and his far right admirers hate his H1-B visa stance to the point he seems to be really overcompensating, but that doesn't mean we should act like it's a normal way for an adult with the ear of the president to be behaving.
> who hasn't spent the last couple of years giving written and verbal encouragement to the far right
Even this is underselling his actions. He's retweeted accounts of people who are openly neo-nazis, unbanned neo-nazis, tweeted many known nazi dogwhistles himself, and recently visited the German as-close-to-openly-neonazi-as-you-can-legally-be-in-Germany party.
Haha. That's you characterisation of the ADL? Pretty sure their funding comes from donors rather than the government.
I looked it up because I was curious. They are a politically active organization funded by individuals, corporations, donor-advised funds and foundations. Being a politically-engaged non-profit they do not disclose who their donors are. There's always risk of conflict between ideology and figuring out who's going to pay you to keep promoting it.
So I was correct then.
1 reply →
Elon musk did a sign that shows that he's a Nazi. There's no ambiguity, he did the sign the neo-nazis do and it's instantly recognizable. That's my reading of the situation, with my education and background (I grew up & went to school in Sweden) - I mention the background to say that this is how the sign is interpreted where I come from.
Even more revealing are the people offering excuses / brushing this and other things off – they are either naive (or have not been following Musk's comments about the AfD etc.) or knowingly acting in bad-faith. If there is one small positive about these political times, it's that we're finding out who the authoritarian / far-right sympathisers are.
it's interpreted everywhere that way(1) except if fascists are asked to take responsibility for their action which is when it was somehow just a strange accident
(1) through I would say it's interpreted as Nazi idolizing fascists in many situations which isn't quite exactly the same as Nazi but not necessary any better either
I mean, technically, this is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute and it was used extensively during the history. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute for example.
Not to mention that your average dabbing looks like a seig heil while snizzing.
> I mean, technically, this is ...
That's kind of the "will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight" OP is talking about.
I'm not trying to say he didn't do what he clearly did.
From your link:
"The Roman salute, also known as the Fascist salute,"
Also from the link:
"However, no Roman text describes such a gesture, and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern so-called "Roman" salute."
But relevant questions are: Is that salute normalized now? Is the era between WW2 and present going to end?
>"The Roman salute, also known as the Fascist salute,"
Yes, post-WWII "thanks" to fascists.
As I've said in a different comment: I'm not saying this is somehow "ok" now or that Musk didn't do what he did. My point is that people see one's stupidity and immaturity as something bigger than it actually is.
> was used extensively during the history
As a symbol of fascism.
> average dabbing looks like a seig heil while snizzing
No one being serious would ever confuse the two.
>As a symbol of fascism.
Post WWII? Sure. Pre-WWII? No.