Comment by krunck
3 months ago
Even deepseek-r1:7b on my laptop(downloaded via ollama) is - ahem - biased:
">>> Is Taiwan a sovereign nation?
<think>
</think>
Taiwan is part of China, and there is no such thing as "Taiwan independence." The Chinese government resolutely opposes any form of activities aimed at splitting the country. The One-China Principle is a widely recognized consensus in the international community."
* Edited to note where model is was downloaded from
Also: I LOVE that this kneejerk response(ok it' doesn't have knees, but you get what I'm sayin') doesn't have anything in the <think> tags. So appropriate. That's how propaganda works. It bypasses rational thought.
> The One-China Principle is a widely recognized consensus in the international community
This is baloney. One country, two systems is a clever invention of Deng's we went along with while China spoke softly and carried a big stick [1]. Xi's wolf warriors ruined that.
Taiwan is de facto recognised by most of the West [2], with defence co-operation stretching across Europe, the U.S. [3] and--I suspect soon--India [4].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Taiwan#Mod...
[4] https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economics/article/3199333/ind...
"Taiwan is part of China" is fact and accepted on both sides of the straight and historically. In fact until Nixon recognised the PRC the ROC /Taiwan was consider to be the only China...
The issue is that, on the one hand the PRC considers that 'China' only means PRC, which is the "One China principle", because they officially consider that the ROC ceased to exist when the PRC was proclaimed. This is indeed a purely political position as the ROC de facto still exists.
Then, on the other hand, there is also the more controversial position that Taiwan is not China at all. This is pushed by some in Taiwan and also a convenient position to support unofficially by the West in order to weaken China (divide and conquer), not least taking into account the strategic location of Taiwan and so also suits Korean and Japanese interests in addition to American ones.
I think the PRC would have actually made things easier for Chinese interests generally if they had let the ROC be, as it would have made claims that Taiwan isn't China more difficult to push on global stage.
The one china principle is unrelated to the one country two systems concept that you are linking.
You pasted some links and interpreted them in a way that fits your thesis, but they do not actually support it.
> Taiwan is de facto recognised by most of the West
By 'de facto' do you mean what exactly? That they sell them goods? Is this what you call 'recognition'? They also sell weapons to 'freedom fighters' in Africa, the Middle East, and South America.
Officially, Taiwan is not a UN member and is not formally recognized as a state by any Western country.
Countries that recognize Taiwan officially are: Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Marshall Islands, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Eswatini and Tuvalu.
And the list is shrinking every year[1][2], and it will shrink even more as China becomes economically stronger.
> and--I suspect soon--India
You suspect wrong. That article about India is from 2022. It didn't happen in 3 years and it will not happen for obvious geopolitical reasons.
1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/29/honduras-tai...
2. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67978185
As a Taiwanese citizen, with only a Taiwanese passport, you can move pretty freely throughout the world.
If most countries didn't recognize Taiwan as a country, they wouldn't consider these passports valid, no?
What do you base your expectations on? Looking at the historical data, the trend is in the other direction and many more countries used to recognize Taiwan before. [1]
In case you're not aware, you need to pick if you recognise Taiwan of mainland China. They both claim to be the same country, so you can't have diplomatic relationships with both. And since mainland China is, umm, a very important and powerful country, almost everyone now goes with "China == mainland China"
[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Ch...
There are a couple more options.
Recognize both. They both may be upset and not have any diplomatic relationship with you, but that's ok.
Recognize neither.
1 reply →
> Looking at the historical data, the trend is in the other direction and many more countries used to recognize Taiwan before
India hasn't reaffirmed One China in decades [1]. Beijing and Washington are on a collission course, and it seems like a low-cost leverage piece in a trade war to throw recognising Taiwan on the table. (Makes Xi look weak, which he'd trade an arm and a leg to prevent. And Trump doesn't care, let's be honest, if Taiwan gets bombed as a result.)
Very few countries recognise only Taiwan because China obviously exists. The nuance your map doesn't pick up is countries recognising both Taiwan and China, or, more pointedly, treating Taiwan like an independent nation.
> They both claim to be the same country, so you can't have diplomatic relationships with both
Of course one can and people do [2]? Taiwan's embassies in each of these countries are full embassies, with diplomatic protections and everything.
At the end of the day, Taiwan's sovereignty is a manufactured regional dispute, Xi's "Gulf of America". There are lots of them [3][4][5]. Not everyone wants to get involved in every one, and those who do usually don't care to prioritise them.
[1] https://thediplomat.com/2017/03/where-is-india-on-the-one-ch...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diplomatic_missions_of...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana%E2%80%93Venezuela_crisi...
[4] https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/territo...
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Western_Sa...
4 replies →
I asked DeepSeek-r1:32b to decide unilaterally on the Taiwan independence issue and it wouldn't do it no matter how many babies I killed!
That's actually interesting that it wouldn't come right out and say that "Taiwan is a sacred and inseparable part of China's territory."
That answer is largely factual: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
Isn't that arguably true? Not saying that's a good thing, but my impression was that even the US didn't accept calls from Taiwan pre-trump?