Comment by bityard
19 days ago
A "cult" is a rather specific kind of organization. The typical hallmarks are non-mainstream spiritual beliefs, highly controlling and exploitative leadership, and rules against interacting with outsiders. Non-conformity generally results in outsized (sometimes violent) punishment and shame.
Under this definition, for example, Catholic nuns are decidedly not a cult. They know what they are in for when the join, and may leave the convent any time they wish. Most Amish communities are _probably_ not cults. I am undecided about Mormons but leaning towards maybe.
I don't know what kind of cult you grew up in (and you have my empathy if it was painful) but "society" by definition cannot be a cult.
I think the “[non]mainstream” just changes the word, not the concept. A cult is an organised power-based religion with few members, an organised religion is often cult with many members. Aside from scale, age, and a few superficial differences, I don't see much distinction between, for example, Catholicism and Scientology. Spiritual beliefs don't even have to come into it: some political or sociological movements and even national governments have tended towards a cultish form.
> Under this definition, for example, Catholic nuns are decidedly not a cult.
That might not be the case for all convents, and there are subsets of the church where the local community develops in a controlling manner that could be considered cult-like. Within any large organisation (and the Catholic Church can be thought of as a huge organisation) subsets can end up being cult-ish even if other parts, or the whole, do not.
>I don't see much distinction between, for example, Catholicism and Scientology.
If someone leave Scientology, they're shunned by the rest of their friends and family who are still in Scientology. Not the same for Catholocism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disconnection_(Scientology)
Also see these schemes:
>Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
>Operation Freakout, also known as Operation PC Freakout, was a Church of Scientology covert plan intended to have the U.S. author and journalist Paulette Cooper imprisoned or committed to a psychiatric hospital.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout
> If someone leave Scientology, they're shunned by the rest of their friends and family who are still in Scientology. Not the same for Catholocism.
Not officially across the whole church, at least not these days, but it certainly happens in some small subsets of the Catholic community and has happened in larger subsets in the not-to-distant past. Any large enough religion tends to develop localised sub-cults.
Stepping away from the Catholics and considering other Christian groups, it definitely happens in small-town America. While there is often some extra factor (daring to be different in some other way), there isn't always, and when there is the extra factor is usually framed as being against the religion or its deit{y|ies}. Sometimes the extra factor itself results in ostracisation from the local church community, so people end up in the same position through a different ordering of the same steps and/or different levels of voluntaryness.
i think you just reaffirmed the parent's point. if a cult can only be "non-mainstream", i think you are just saying cults become societies once they're large/successful enough. i see plenty of examples of your other indicators in mainstream society.
Then you are only hearing whatever you want to hear, because I am not saying anything even remotely like that.
You may believe that society is broken in whatever way you chose but saying, "society is bad, and cults are bad, therefore society is a cult" is utterly broken logic.