It seems apparent to me that Apple leaked this information to US press in an attempt to get the UK to back off. Wouldn't Apple also try to subvert the attempt for US intelligence to get a backdoor? Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over?
> Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over?
Apple has no leg to stand on at all. When the NSA comes to your door and demands access to everything you have you don't get to say no. There is no court you can appeal to, and they'll take whatever they want and order you to keep your mouth shut about it. They'll walk right into your headquarters and data centers, force you to move your employees so they can set up an office for themselves on your property, insert their equipment into your network directly and take everything just like they did with AT&T decades ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A)
Your only options are to comply or shut down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit) and I'm not even sure the US government would allow "shut down" as an option in some cases. It seems likely that they'd keep a massive target like Apple running even if the owners of the company wanted to cease operations, but lets be honest, Apple makes a lot of people very very rich so they'd never walk away from that. They'll keep making their money and just try to convince themselves that the US are the "good guys" and so it must be okay.
I can't imagine all cloud providers weren't leaned on heavily to provide this access long time ago. Its a treasure trove too juicy to be ignored. Pro quid pro of course.
Anything else is highly illogical or outright stupid, imagine CIA or NSA having meeting on this decade and a half ago and deciding 'well if they won't give us full access when we asked nicely I guess that's it, we have to respect the law and their wish'. LOL. They don't respect basic human rights at all if you don't hold US passport, and even then the list of cases breaking laws and constitution is endless.
Apple is good with their PR, but why do folks accept their every word literally and not as part of marketing spin to sell more services is beyond me. Rest of the market is not even trying to spin it that way which is actually more respectable behavior.
No. Whistleblowers are extremely rare. Snowden did it, but he also worked with thousands of other employees who had knowledge of some, if not all, of the abuses Snowden told us about, but not one of them came forward. This is pretty much always the case when it comes to whistleblowers. For every one who came forward there were many many more who knew and stayed silent and it's hard to blame them. Whistleblowers are harshly punished, and sometimes killed in retaliation.
Being willing to sacrifice everything you have, including your career, your freedom, and potentially your life, just to let the public know the truth is not something you should expect people to do. It's a huge amount of risk and sacrifice while the only reward is knowing that you've done the right thing even though you'll be vilified and punished for it. That's what makes whistleblowers heroes.
Not necessarily. There's a lot of people absolutely unwilling to risk loosing their salary and career. If you are doxxed as the leaker, what other company would hire you? I'm not even considering if there could be criminal charges involved as well.
Snowden left an example of what kind of lifestyle is possible after leaking, and I doubt snowflakes at FAANG would be down for that. Or how about other examples of leakers that have turned up dead? That's a cheery thought to consider.
So yeah, at this point in time, I do believe there's a lot of people that might not agree, but are not up for the task.
Apple is famous for keeping projects secret from its own employees. To be clear, I think it's unlikely that this has already been set up for the US, but it would be easiest to do at Apple.
"As far as we know" is the most important part.
It seems apparent to me that Apple leaked this information to US press in an attempt to get the UK to back off. Wouldn't Apple also try to subvert the attempt for US intelligence to get a backdoor? Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over?
> Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over?
Apple has no leg to stand on at all. When the NSA comes to your door and demands access to everything you have you don't get to say no. There is no court you can appeal to, and they'll take whatever they want and order you to keep your mouth shut about it. They'll walk right into your headquarters and data centers, force you to move your employees so they can set up an office for themselves on your property, insert their equipment into your network directly and take everything just like they did with AT&T decades ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A)
Your only options are to comply or shut down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit) and I'm not even sure the US government would allow "shut down" as an option in some cases. It seems likely that they'd keep a massive target like Apple running even if the owners of the company wanted to cease operations, but lets be honest, Apple makes a lot of people very very rich so they'd never walk away from that. They'll keep making their money and just try to convince themselves that the US are the "good guys" and so it must be okay.
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I can't imagine all cloud providers weren't leaned on heavily to provide this access long time ago. Its a treasure trove too juicy to be ignored. Pro quid pro of course.
Anything else is highly illogical or outright stupid, imagine CIA or NSA having meeting on this decade and a half ago and deciding 'well if they won't give us full access when we asked nicely I guess that's it, we have to respect the law and their wish'. LOL. They don't respect basic human rights at all if you don't hold US passport, and even then the list of cases breaking laws and constitution is endless.
Apple is good with their PR, but why do folks accept their every word literally and not as part of marketing spin to sell more services is beyond me. Rest of the market is not even trying to spin it that way which is actually more respectable behavior.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...
You are out of your mind if you think files in iCloud are somehow outside the reach of US intel.
It’s been publicly used in a bunch of prosecutions at this point.
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Don’t you think out of the thousands of Apple employees that someone would leak it?
No. Whistleblowers are extremely rare. Snowden did it, but he also worked with thousands of other employees who had knowledge of some, if not all, of the abuses Snowden told us about, but not one of them came forward. This is pretty much always the case when it comes to whistleblowers. For every one who came forward there were many many more who knew and stayed silent and it's hard to blame them. Whistleblowers are harshly punished, and sometimes killed in retaliation.
Being willing to sacrifice everything you have, including your career, your freedom, and potentially your life, just to let the public know the truth is not something you should expect people to do. It's a huge amount of risk and sacrifice while the only reward is knowing that you've done the right thing even though you'll be vilified and punished for it. That's what makes whistleblowers heroes.
Not necessarily. There's a lot of people absolutely unwilling to risk loosing their salary and career. If you are doxxed as the leaker, what other company would hire you? I'm not even considering if there could be criminal charges involved as well.
Snowden left an example of what kind of lifestyle is possible after leaking, and I doubt snowflakes at FAANG would be down for that. Or how about other examples of leakers that have turned up dead? That's a cheery thought to consider.
So yeah, at this point in time, I do believe there's a lot of people that might not agree, but are not up for the task.
4 replies →
Apple is famous for keeping projects secret from its own employees. To be clear, I think it's unlikely that this has already been set up for the US, but it would be easiest to do at Apple.
We know.