Comment by LudwigNagasena

9 days ago

Why didn’t she put something about working at a soup kitchen into her grant proposal? I guess because working at a soup kitchen doesn’t in any way qualify her for a grant. But she did put information about “services” at a DEI board, probably because that information can help get her a grant.

What would you think if most approved grants started with “I am a rich white man”? Surely that wouldn’t be the exact reason why the grant was given. But why would that even be in a grant proposal? What if many approved grants contained “I preside over a board of Aryan math”? Would that be totally fine and not slippery?

11 comments

LudwigNagasena

superb_dev 9 days ago

Of course this helps her proposal, but not because the mere mention of DEI gets it a rubber stamp.

It’s part of her credentials to show that she’s taken an active role in expanding access to these advanced fields. It shows she’s part of the community and cares about the field she’s in.

Working in a soup kitchen and being a rich white man as counter examples don’t work to prove your point because duh they aren’t related to math.

sshine 9 days ago

> being a rich white man [...] don’t work to prove your point because duh they aren’t related to math.

Historically, being a rich white man is related to math:

  - elite European men historically had better access to education
  - many famous mathematicians came from wealthy backgrounds
  - historical math societies were almost entirely composed of rich white men
  - math advanced in navigation, trade and military which were historically occupied by men
  - when circumstance didn't, rich white men historically excluded women and colored people

LudwigNagasena 9 days ago
> Of course this helps her proposal, but not because the mere mention of DEI gets it a rubber stamp.
Of course.
> It’s part of her credentials to show that she’s taken an active role in expanding access to these advanced fields. It shows she’s part of the community and cares about the field she’s in.
No, it is not. That is not related to category theory in any way. That’s really stretching any notion of “credential”. It seems really bad to distribute grants according to such qualifications. Community organising and politics aren’t math.
> Working in a soup kitchen and being a rich white man as counter examples don’t work to prove your point because duh they aren’t related to math.
A soup kitchen for poor math enthusiasts? A head of Arian math society? Very math related.
- superb_dev 9 days ago
  
  Honest to god, if a soup kitchen for poor math enthusiasts was a thing then it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to mention your involvement in your grant application.
  That’s networking, that’s community, it couldn’t hurt to mention it.
  Now the explicitly racist “Aryan Math Society”? Id leave that off the proposal.
  
  4 replies →
- defrost 9 days ago
  
  > A soup kitchen for poor math enthusiasts?
  Far more lilely to encounter a Settlers of Catan ramen party for breadline math enthusiasts.

pjc50 9 days ago

Ah, the mathematical field of false equivalence classes.

LudwigNagasena 9 days ago

That’s called a comparison, an intuition pump, an invitation to entertain an opposite view. The parent comment said it was an “irrelevant mention”. I simply tried to articulate why it cannot be considered so.
Do you actually agree that DEI mention is immaterial to the grant proposal? If so, it can be easily removed, but some people, like the other person who replied to me, seem to think it’s actually a good thing and it’s not immaterial and grants should be distributed based on such criteria.
It’s the same old trite progression of “it doesn’t exist” -> “it doesn’t matter” -> “it’s actually a good thing”. Every. Single. Time.