Comment by SR2Z
4 months ago
I mean, sure, but you've also got "United Mexican States" for Mexico and "Republic of China" for Taiwan or even "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" for the UK.
Nobody in their right mind calls any of them by their full names. The rules are more-or-less consistent, it's just pedantry to complain about "America."
It's accepted by all on planet Dirt that they live on planet dirt.
Elsewhere, others living on orbiting aggregates with surface soil like to occassionally disambiguate.
Naturally this seems insane to the exceptionalist denizens of Dirt.
Mexico alone is clear, a Mexican is a citizen of the UMS. The UK is equally clear.
Outside of the United States, particlularly with other American, North, South, or Central ESL speakers, it's not so clear.
This is why the practice arose many years past, why the BBC once had clear style guides on not using "American(s)" in any articles until after the full name United States of America had been used to establish context for which Americans wre intended.
> it's just pedantry to complain about "America."
Being clear isn't a complaint. It's taken as such by the small minded with a horizon limited by a halo about their head.
I'm not complaining about clarifying. I'm complaining that the meaning of the word is obvious from context in almost every case and this is a really annoying form of pettiness which is hardly being applied evenly.
I don't think I have EVER seen "American" used to refer to "North and South America" outside of geography. That goes for when I'm outside the US, too. It's certainly not what reasonable people would assume you're talking about.
This discussion is really unproductive, so I guess we'll just have to disagree.
> I don't think I have EVER seen "American" used to refer to "North and South America" outside of geography.
I'll refrain from reproducing the OED 2nd Edition entry for American unless you really want it, there are three uses as a adjective, five as a noun, the Adjective Use 2, variation c is "United States specific", ( 1.a is "Belonging to the continent of America. Also, of or pertaining to its inhabitants." )
So, you know, a few hundred years of printed use, with citations, says that others have seen it used more widely than yourself.
To be fair, that's all an aside to me .. what has caught my eye in the past few months is a few commenters on HN getting quite upset at "USAian, USofAian, etc" variations appearing here. Clearly this is new to some, others have seen such contractions about forums for four decades.
It follows from pre 2000 (ish) BBC and other style guides that eschew using "Americans" to refer to US citizens until after the context has been established, leading to older BBC articles and broadcasts opening stories with "In the United States today .... Americans reported ...".
From that, in (say) forums discussing i18n and|or l10n (the usual contractions for Internationalization and Localization) with Koreans, South Americans, various Commonwealth types etc. USian became a short fast way to specify which group of North Americans reference might be made to.
This seems straightforward, reasonable, non evangelical, and something a majority immediately "got" w/out batting an eye .. certainly causing less fuss than using "i18n" and other contractions.
I have to agree with you that the meaning of "Usian" is obvious from context in almost every case and it is a really annoying form of pettiness that makes a song and dance about it in protest every time it appears.
Calling the USA just America is like if Taiwan called itself just China. Yes it's common within the USA, but for the rest of the people who live in America, it seems strange.
"American" has been used by English speakers to refer to residents of the US for 3 centuries.
To change it now (why? to avoid hurting the feelings of people, most of whom do not even speak or read English?) would be harmful. "Harmful" is a strong word, so I will explain.
I don't hate Russia, but if I did, I would like it if the Russian people somehow stopped being able to continue to use the main word they've been using to refer to themselves for centuries. It would make it slightly harder for Russians to have conversations about themselves as a social and political entity and to understand old books about their ancestors.
Web sites influence human behavior by making some operations slightly more difficult than others. E.g., the "Accept all cookies" button is a prominent color whereas the "Reject all cookies" link is less so. The point is that a "trivial inconvenience" that is encountered often (i.e., whenever anyone tries to start a conversation about Americans) might have a significant effect over future decades in making Americans feels less united with their countrymen and discouraging discussion of American identity (because for example "USian" is more awkward to use in a spoken conversation than "American" is).
> "American" has been used by English speakers to refer to residents of the US for 3 centuries.
Sure, US citizens are, after all, a subset of North Americans and are Americans just as are South and Central Americans.
English speakers in the United Kingdom and elsewhere have indeed written many texts and articles in which they discuss the United States of America, events in the USofA, and then move to talk about Americans .. having established the context of which Americans they refer to.
This was explicit in BBC guidelines and UK newspapers of note until perhaps the 1990s.
> I don't hate Russia, but if I did, I would like it if the Russian people somehow felt unable to continue to use the main word they've been using to refer to themselves for centuries.
It's not clear how this comes into play here. If Russian speaking ethnically Russian non citizens of modern Russia refer to themselves as Russian after their family ties to the former Russian Empire then surely anyone in the Americas can equally be referred to as an American.
> "USian" is more awkward to use in a spoken conversation than "American" is).
I've not heard it used in spoken conversation. In text forums where I've seen it used since the 1980s it's shorthand to contract first saying "United States of America" and then referencing US citizens as Americans.