Comment by hughesey
2 years ago
This was announced originally early last year. It removes the requirement for TLD and nTLD (not ccTLD) operators to have a WHOIS service available, but doesn't mandate they must shut them down.
So far the sunsetting has had little effect with most TLDs still having their WHOIS services online. In reality, I think we'll see a period of time where many TLDs and nTLDs have both WHOIS and RDAP available.
Additionally, since ccTLD's aren't governed by ICANN, many don't even have an RDAP service available. As such, there's going to be a mix of RDAP and WHOIS in use across the entire internet for some time to come.
Disclosure: I run https://viewdns.info/ and have spent many an hour dealing with both WHOIS and RDAP parsing to make sure that our service returns consistent data (via our web interface and API) regardless of the protocol in use.
I think RDAP is going to be adopted by more and more ccTLDs as well. WHOIS is not a particularly well liked protocol (I was at an IETF meeting where ICANN did a presentation on the timeline and people were literally cheering for the demise of WHOIS).
Disclosure: Work in the ccTLD space.
100% agree that there will be more ccTLD operators that will implement RDAP. The sooner we're on a consistent protocol the better!
Self-plug: I run a little mastodon/activity pub bot that monitors DNS RDAP adoption according to the official bootstrap file: https://social.haukeluebbers.de/@stateofrdap
Last post from yesterday:
> As of today 82.25% (1187) of all 1443 Top Level Domains have an authoritative RDAP service declared.
> These TLDs were added:
> .ye
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It's funny to see that a lot of services are finally moving from a human-readable / plain text format towards structured protocols right at the point where we can finally have LLMS parse the unstructured protocols :-)
Well you can't really trust an LLM to give you reproducible output every time, you can't even trust it to be faithful to the input data, so that's nice to have a standard format now. And for like a millionth of the computing resources to parse it. Also Whois was barely human-readable, with the fields all over the place, missing or different from one registry to the other. A welcome change that should have come really sooner.
we can't ever have LLMs reliably parse any form of data. You know what can parse it perfectly though? A parser. Which works perfectly, and consistently.
Except that the whole problem of WHOIS, that RDAP is solving, is that a WHOIS response an unstructured plaintext response, that's entirely arbitrarily formatted according to the whims of the TLD manager.
Ever tried to parse WHOIS data? You literally have to write a parser per TLD.
And things get even more stupid when you start talking about WHOIS records for IP ranges. Then you have to write a parser per IP-range delegation — starting at IANA, and working recursively, all the way down to the individual ASN. Where you have no idea how many delegating parties are going to be involved — and so get their own step in the chain, formatted however they wish — for any given IP address. (Ask me how I know.)
> Which works perfectly
... on conformant inputs, when it has no bugs.
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Of course we can. Reliability is a spectrum, not a binary state. You can push it up however high you like, and stop somewhere between "we don't care about error rate this low" and "error rate is so low it's unlikely to show in practice".
It's not like this is a new concept. There are plenty of algorithms we've been using for decades that are only statistically correct. A perfect example of this is efficient primality testing, which is probabilistic in nature[0], but you can easily make the probability of error as small as "unlikely to happen before heat death of the universe".
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[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primality_test#Probabilistic_t...
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If you job is to be a referent, to have authority. You absolutely don't want to make any error. Pretty safe isn't enough, you need to be absolutely sure that you control the output.
You only have one job, don't delegate authority.
But isn't using LLM for that really expensive? Seems wasteful.
I wouldn't use LLMs, but if I did, I would try to get the LLM to write parser code instead.
If it can convert from one format to another, then it can generate test cases for the parser. Then hopefully it can use those to iterate on parser code until it passes the tests.
In a sense, asking it to automate the work isn't as straightforward as asking it to do the work. But if the approach does pan out, it might be easier overall since it's probably easier to deploy generated code to production (than deploying LLMs).
My desktop GPU can run small models at 185 tokens a second. Larger models with speculative decoding: 50t/s. With a small, finetuned model as the draft model, no, this won't take much power at all to run inference.
Training, sure, but that's buy once cry once.
Whether this means it's a good idea, I don't think so, but the energy usage for parsing isn't why.
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My assumption is that models are getting cheaper, fast. So you can build now with OpenAI/Anthropic/etc and swap it out for a local or hosted model in a year.
This doesn't work for all use cases but data extraction is pretty safe. Treat it like a database query -- a slow but high availability and relatively cheap call.
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deepseek API costs are quite literally pennies per million tokens
Which world would you rather live in: * structured protocols that can be parsed by machines * unstructured protocols that are unreliably parsed by LLMs that require significant power and latency
In addition to ~determative machines and LLMs, what about humans reading the data?
https://deviq.com/antipatterns/shiny-toy
Off topic thank you for runnig viewdns.info. I don't use it regularly, mainly for the occasional WHOIS information lookup and it has always worked perfectly.
Thanks for the kind words and glad it's been useful :).
It's kind of funny some operators have never had it in practice. For example, .es never had a public whois, and need to register with a national ID (and I think with a fixed IP address) to get access to it.
That need for a national ID hasn't been in place for a long time, AFAIK.
I have a .es (my nickname berkes, domain berk.es) for almost 16 years now, and live in the EU, but not in Spain. In the beginning I used a small company that offered services for non-spanish companies to register .es through them (I believe they technically owned the domains?). But today it's just in my local domain registrar without need for an ID.
That .es has no whois has struck me as somewhat of a benefit actually. Back in the days, it kept away a lot of spam from spammers that'd just lift email-addresses off the whois. My .com, .nl and other domains recieve(d) significant more such spam. Let alone phone-number and other personal details delivered over an efficient, decentralized network. Though recent privacy addons(?) have mitigated that a little.
I meant for accessing the whois, not for registering. If you try any type of WHOIS request you'll be replied with a message sending you to nic.es site, where you'll be presented with a captcha if you try to get information about a registered domain.
It's not very well documented, but you can register at a government site using a national ID and they'll open WHOIS access for a fixed IP address, for a maximum of 10 queries a minute. [0]
Context for any of you not used to the .es ccTLDs: Until some years ago, and simplifying a bit, if you wanted to register a .es TLD you had to be an Spanish national or company, and be the legal holder of the domain name you wanted to register (or your name and surnames).
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Usually, the need to use an ID is only for private persons (and usually only if they are nationals). Anyone else should not need that. The general theory is that a nation can only verify data that they themselves have.
Some ccTLD's have rules against registrations by people not located within the country that owns the ccTLD, in which case a valid national id or organization number would be required. From what I can see, .es does not have that requirement.
Se my other comment [0] but I meant for accessing the WHOIS service, not for registering. If you try any type of WHOIS request you'll be replied with a message sending you to nic.es site, where you'll be presented with a captcha if you try to get information about a registered domain.
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For example, .es never had a public whois, and need to register with a national ID (and I think with a fixed IP address) to get access to it.
Is this new? I had an .es domain around 2011, and am not Spanish, or even European.
Se my other comment [0] but I meant for accessing the WHOIS service, not for registering. If you try any type of WHOIS request you'll be replied with a message sending you to nic.es site, where you'll be presented with a captcha if you try to get information about a registered domain.
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You don't need WHOIS to register a domain.
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Hey, I've been looking for a tool that can do reverse NS lookup for a nameserver pairs (ie. which domains have nameservers ns1.example.com and ns2.example.com) but all the services out there that I've found can only do one. Is this something you would consider implementing?
Thank you so much for running your service. I've used it for years, and LOVE how functional and useful it is!