Comment by asoneth
9 months ago
> Humans are not good at measuring risk.
True in general, but in the specific case of gun homicides, the data do seem to support their concern. As per [1] and [2] the US gun homicide rate is more than 4 per 100k whereas countries like Switzerland, Sweden, France, Japan, UK, Denmark, and many others seem to have between one and two orders of magnitude fewer gun deaths.
If someone from one of those countries above expressed concern about gun homicides when visiting the United States it would seem no more irrational than a fellow American expressing concern about visiting Jamaica or Honduras because they have an order-of-magnitude higher gun homicide rate compared to the United States.
(I doubt the overall gun homicide numbers tell the whole story with regard to tourist safety, just that there exists a rational basis for this concern.)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... [2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-death...
The fact that violence is higher in A vs B isn't necessarily going to mean OP individually is at a realistic risk of gun violence.
This still seems like a recipe for endless worry with little or no realistic reduction in risk.
In the end if OP is overwhelmed by this that's their call. I'm not going to tell them what they should do, but will offer different ways to think about it.
Agreed. As I said, the overall gun homicide numbers do not tell the whole story with regard to tourist safety -- assuming OP is visiting tourist-y places then the risk of death will be significantly lower than the overall numbers indicate, though possibly still higher than their home country.
But people worry about all sorts of irrational things with zero basis in fact. I'm merely pointing out that there is, in fact, a factual basis for this concern.
Personally I consider the benefits of traveling even to other countries (even those with higher homicide rates than the US) to vastly outweigh the risks. But if someone feels otherwise and avoids traveling to places with higher levels of risk then I think this would technically provide a "realistic reduction in risk".
Gun violence in the US is highly concentrated in places you'll never go as a tourist.
Yah. Meanwhile you can be robbed and/or knifed anytime, no matter where, or pushed down stairs from behind your back because pusher felt like you looked wrong at him/denied him a cigarette/your smartphone/some euros, pushed down onto the tracks of mass-transportation from the platform while a train is coming in, sitting in (front of) a cafe/diner, or being intentionally driven over by a car, steered by a madman on a mission, or simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time, while some unrelated madness ensues.
Especially in Germany.
Sure, that’s what I’m referring to in the other comment about truck attacks. Germany on average is less violent but has outbursts of random violence targeting places tourists frequent, yet no one says don’t go to Munich.
Agreed, that's why I said that while there is a basis for this concern, the overall gun homicide numbers don't tell the whole story with respect to tourist safety.
I couldn't find any specific numbers with regard to US tourist safety, though Australia's travel advisory does mention the high rates of gun crimes and about a month ago a couple Israeli tourists were shot in Miami Beach.
Again, gun violence would not be my primary concern if I were visiting the US as a tourist, I'm just pointing out that there exists a basis for this concern.
It's vanishingly rare for tourists to be murdered in the US. Per FBI data 90+% of US murders are committed by an acquaintance of the victim. A large percentage of the remaining 10% is from altercations that escalate to shootings.
The European preoccupation with American gun violence as it relates to tourism is misplaced in my opinion as tourists are almost never involved. Compare that to the frequent truck/car ramming attacks in Germany which seemingly always kill tourists. Should I avoid visiting German Christmas markets?
6 replies →
I don’t think so. In every interaction with American police there is always a chance you end up face down dead in a pool of your own blood, especially if you’re not a citizen.
There really isn’t. The number of unarmed people killed by American police every year is close to 10. This happens across millions of interactions.
Interesting, how do you figure they establish citizenship status in those circumstances?
1 reply →