Comment by Folcon
8 months ago
I'm an external individual to the US, but I must admit that some of the sentiments being expressed here in this thread and elsewhere about the lack of accountability deeply concern me, it reminds me of many things I saw growing up and still see today in south asia.
Independent of anything else, I do see the overton window shifting in the US, the most subtle of which are norms and expectations around acts of corruption.
Every nation has it's minor acts of corruption, small favours between friends, which I've always thought of as being functionally impossible to remove as they also allow for a flexible environment which allows things to get done.
However the norms seem to be shifting more towards the idea that those in power can act as they will, and in fact the expected thing is they will act to enrich themselves. I hope this does not happen, because this is death to entrepreneurship, this is one of those things that will poison the economy, when people no longer trust that what they make can be theirs, that others can look on in envy at the work they have built on their blood and sweat and can take it as their due because they have power.
That will create a chilling effect for anyone who wishes to create and will make them wonder as myself and many others have considered, whether it's better to create their life's work elsewhere.
I sincerely hope this doesn't happen here, once this mindset becomes a norm, it's incredibly hard thing to stamp out.
It's so much worse than that already. If corruption was the only problem we face in the US then there might be some real hope to reverse course.
The corruption is caused by their short sightedness, a total lack of critical analysis capacity to see past the surface assessment of pretty much everything. The problem in the United States is that adults are no longer adults, we manufacture immature people with simplistic world views that seriously know no better, and they have the entire Republican Party hostage, a material percentage of the Democratic Party, and in general the USA is awash in a state of noncommunication because such people cannot see past their immediate assessments to find any common ground. Sure, we have real adults, but not enough to make a critical difference in the quality of our public discourse, to reverse this nose dive.
Bingo! And the sadder part is this isn't even anything new, but it's all come to a head now.
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Isaac Asimov, 1980
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In the past, I think the two party system somewhat protected against this. The complete capture of the party by trump has removed the system's ability to guard against this. Most senior republicans from a generation ago would recoil at what is happening in their party today. but many of the ones around during the trump takeover were absolutely spineless during his first administration, and things are far worse now.
The full text now:
"The statements by Hegseth, Gabbard, Ratcliffe, and Trump—combined with the assertions made by numerous administration officials that we are lying about the content of the Signal texts—have led us to believe that people should see the texts in order to reach their own conclusions. There is a clear public interest in disclosing the sort of information that Trump advisers included in nonsecure communications channels, especially because senior administration figures are attempting to downplay the significance of the messages that were shared..."
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-...
"Here are the Attack Plans That Trump's Advisers Shared on Signal" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43481521
I'd recommend for Entrepreneurs, just like Scientists now do, to consider Europe as a safe-haven. In the EU the rule of law still matters.
The grass isn't always greener. I think the core underlying issue at all of this is social divides within countries. When groups of people become sufficiently antagonistic towards one another, it really enables widespread corruption because people will actively blind themselves (or handwave away) to the wrongs of "their side" and magnify the wrongs of "the other side" with no limits to the hyperbole.
And Europe is most certainly not an exception to this, especially in current times. For instance 65% of EU citizens do not believe that high level corruption is sufficiently pursued. [1] And basically every EU country (outside of Scandiland) has a majority to vast majority who believe that corruption is widespread in their country.
[1] - https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3217
But public perception doesn’t necessarily reflect actual levels of corruption. Having dodgy planning approved is not the same as buying a seat at the head of the government for a quarter billion dollars.
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The grass isn’t always greener
Like most things in life, I suppose it is all relative? Diabetes sucks, but it sure sucks less than cancer.
Of course it would be lovely if there is zero corruption, zero pollution, zero nepotism etc. Which is highly unlikely to happen?
Which brings the question - what is the best country to live, relatively speaking?
Sure, that's why von der Leyen run the huge Pfizer deals then conveniently "lost" the SMS about them, hired her pals as defense consultants hiding €100+ million of the costs and the decisions which favored the companies supporting her (e.g. lucrative contracts were awarded to the global consulting giant McKinsey & Company, where von der Leyen's son works as an associate, and several other cases.
And she is just the tip of the iceberg of EU corruption. In general such politicians only get repercusions selectively, and usually only when the political direction changes and they're no longer useful to the establishment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizergate
https://www.politico.eu/article/5-things-to-know-about-ursul...
I love how this subthread devolved into arguing about Europe's attached bottlecap regulations and that the GDPR has resulted in lots of very annoying cookie banners.
So in the US you have a corrupt, authoritarian takeover of a society – and in Europe you have well-meaning, but somewhat annoying, regulations that still need some work to function perfectly.
The cookie banners were never mandated by GDPR, that's entirely the industry's fault and intent - dark UX patterns to try and annoy the user into agreeing, or a silent protest to the perceived overbearing nature of the GDPR.
They could've just respected a browser's do-not-track header but chose not to. The EU legislators should've done that too, that is, dictate a standardized method for people to opt in.
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Not sure how you could possibly come up with this idea — but I’d recommend not consuming hysterical media narratives and instead looking at actual data. This is a chart of globally relevant companies founded in Europe in the last 50 years:
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/s/1Fn23uYVxK
The data depicts the exact opposite of what you are saying. As an entrepreneur, you can be “safe” knowing you will have far less chance to succeed in the EU.
These just compare market cap. As the US economy is disproportionally financialized, that outcome is hardly surprising: This was just measuring market financialization by proxy. I mean two of the largest on the left, Google and Meta, are essentially just ad companies.
Now compare companies by actual revenue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_E...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_t...
I omitted the 50 years distinction because, unsurprisingly, the companies in the US are younger.
None of these are actually relevant for founders, however, as even in the US you only have a couple dozen large cap companies, but millions of founders.
What is relevant is the share of employers per capita, as that shows us how many founders actually exist.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_rec...
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_rec...
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Stop pretending that America of today is anything like America of 15 years ago
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Historical data is not great for forming an argument when the basis is that things have radically changed and historical results don't matter anymore.
How much of this is because of the US strong-arming companies in their sphere of influence? Nobody here actually forgot the MegaUpload fiasco, it's just that people pretend to forget abusive relationships.
Europe suffers from another kind of "corruption", more akin to a corrupted file system: absurd, rigid and unpredictable regulation makes life very hard for businesses, which drives large private capital away.
I am European, and every time I open one of those stupid locked-on bottle caps, I feel pain for my country, for Europe (and for my face).
Then send a message to the producer. The law requires for caps to be attached but doesn't describe how. I have a water bottle next to me that has a cap connected by one long piece after opening that doesn't touch my face at all when drinking.
Sure, Europe has some red tape that should be removed but don't paint it as some kind of Kafka's universe because it's not that bad. I'm from east side of Iron Curtain and I remember how bad that was.
Also, most of the businesses will do what's needed to be done because the market is big.
Personally, I prefer to live a life in a slightly over regulated place that at least keeps common people in mind than whatever is US turning into.
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> I am European, and every time I open one of those stupid locked-on bottle caps, I feel pain for my country, for Europe (and for my face).
Is life so bad in Europe that’s what you have to complain about? Sounds truly like a nightmare - caps attached to bottles? Barbaric.
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Stop buying disposable bottles then. They are part of a solution to a waste problem, but by continuing to buy disposablle bottles you're contributing to the issue.
"every time I open one of those stupid locked-on bottle caps, I feel pain for my country, for Europe (and for my face)."
You know that it is easy to remove the plastic locking the caps on? (Just twist them) And to me it is also easy to drink with them locked on, just have it side ways.
So I also do have lots of complaints about the EU, but this ain't it.
This is what you complain about in Europe? Every day when I drop my children off at school I wonder if today’s the day. That’s not hyperbole, it’s my reality in the US.
European law is a patchwork of suboptimal solutions to hard (but often self-imposed) problems. The US meanwhile doesn't try to solve them at all.
Yes, the bottle caps annoy me, but if the beverage companies stuck to the much more recyclable glass bottles we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
Yes, the GDPR popups annoy me, but the law also punishes companies for being creepy exploitative bastards. If they had any morals, we wouldn't have the popups either.
So yes, Europe is sometimes frustrating, but at least it does some government. The US simply doesn't. It's a free-for-all hellscape and I'd much rather be lightly scraped on the face by a little plastic cap that one time a month I need to drink from a disposable plastic bottle than live in...that...
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One EU AI startup even named itself after these bottle caps:) https://www.bottlecapai.com/
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Nevermind the bottle caps.
The internet is borderline unusable without extensions like "I don't care about cookies". And in situations where you care about them, you can not, because something has to record that I've seen the GDPR consent form. Recently, in the name of... who knows what, it's become a pain in the ass to access Google maps from Google search.
The idea that Europe can become a safe haven for entrepreneurs is beyond laughable. The vaunted "rule of law" has degraded into nothing more than fetishizing arbitrary and irrational rules.
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The ends justify the means is now openly accepted, even celebrated.
And conflicts of interest don’t exist.
Yes, unfortunately we’re already at that point. Republicans and their base close ranks so effectively that it’s essentially a safe haven for all sorts of corruption and serious crime. The voters won’t punish them at the ballot and they’ve essentially captured all sources of checks and balances.
It's Republicans and Democrats. You're in this position in the first place because you have no real political diversity. It's not gonna change in that two party system either.
Vote for ranked choice voting, starting at the local levels.
Grade school needs rank choice voting activities to help make it feel familiar.
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I mean this with all due respect. Anyone who talks about Democrats and Republicans like they’re on one of the teams has totally missed the political charade being orchestrated in DC. These parties do not represent you.
Both are bad. One is much, much worse than the other.
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DOGE is not "an audit of the government". It is a propaganda exercise based on lies, whose only effect will be to make the government - and citizens - lose more money (for ex. see NOAA).
https://doge.muskwatch.com/
An audit would be listing and flagging items for review. What DOGE is doing is actually taking the decision of cutting stuff, without review, as retribution, to fully capture the state for the GOP and Musk.
Trump immediatly fired every inspector general as soon as he could (in violation of federal law).
https://www.axios.com/2025/01/25/trump-fires-inspectors-gene...
I'm already feeling like entrepreneurship is out the window.
It's a combination of AI being owned from these mega corporations and corruption at the highest level that I'm losing sight of what is the purpose building my startup business in an authoritarian landscape.
Trump illegally promoting Elon's corporation with a yard sale, kissing his feet for donating millions to his campaign thanks to citizens united, allowing him to ransack the federal government as an unelected official, to making vandalism a domestic terrorist act for people fed up when him,and now putting Elon in charge of investigating Signalgate.
People need to stand up now before they cannot.
>when people no longer trust that what they make can be theirs, that others can look on in envy at the work they have built on their blood and sweat and can take it as their due because they have power.
We just need liberals to embrace the 2nd with as much fervor as the right.
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if you don't think the current executive branch is corrupt......good luck in life!
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You shouldn't ever tell anyone here to fuck off. It's not polite. You may get penalized.
That said, your examples are indeed corruption. But the parent did not make any equivalency. He gave purported examples of corruption. One can say that they're unsubstantiated, but that's a different argument.
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> because this is death to entrepreneurship
This does not follow. Even in highly corrupt authoritarian countries entrepreneurship can flourish. Just consider Turkey or Russia. In such places one quickly learn whom to pay with corruption payouts becoming business expenses.
Does entrepreneurship flourish in Russia? This would surprise me just because its GDP is smaller than Italy's, and around 17% of it is oil and gas. CAGR for past 10 years in Russia is ~1.5% (compared with ~2.3% for the US).
Just seems logical to me that if entrepreneurship was flourishing, we would see more economic growth as a result.
You can’t take the GDP in US$ for comparison, given the sanctions and all. PPP is a better means.
I do not know about entrepreneurship, but I do know that a Russian’s average purchase power is significantly higher than what you might expect from just looking at the GDP
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"This would surprise me just because its GDP is smaller than Italy's"
GDP to US dollar is only works IF your export and import is only traded with US dollar which doesn't to be the case since Russia is trade with Brics partner that bypass all sanction and not using US dollar
Russia has been spending all gains in economy on military for the last 15 years. Ability of local businessmen to quickly find new trading partners in Asia is one of the primary reasons Russian economy did not collapsed under suctions and the war.
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Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that this is purely a theoretical exercise for you, life under those conditions is chaotic and complex, at the bare minimum, it limits the complexity of the kind of business you can run.
And that's ignoring other externalities.
Russian business is very complex. Just consider that due to sanctions many companies needed to quickly learn how to operate with cryptocurrencies, find new trade partners etc.
Or like building companies switched to Russian military contracts to build factories for drone, ammunition etc. to make weapons to kill Ukrainians.
If one has no moral compass, one can absolutely flourish as a businessman in Russia.
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I don't think entrepreneurs enjoy paying for "protection" when mafia knocks on the door or companies being taken over entirely when somebody in power decides that they like this one.
Can you mention some Russian success stories to back that up?
Wasn't this the whole shtick with Navalny -- minority shareholders rights being trampled and he set about trying to critique the Russian government. Or Bill Browder who was doing business in Russia until the Russian government literally killed his colleague.
> one quickly learn whom to pay with corruption payouts becoming business expenses
Exactly also already happening in the US and with Law Firms.
"Trump rescinds executive order after law firm agrees to provide $40m in free services" - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/20/trump-rescin...