Comment by mmooss
1 month ago
> overabundance of honesty
I don't agree with that part. The immediate cost will be outweighed, I expect, by the impact on the judge; possibly, if Lidden isn't jailed, on the employer who will remember that Lidden was so honest under pressure and at personal cost; and on everyone around Lidden for the rest of their life, having earned trust that few of us have.
I really really really wish that this is true, unfortunately it very often isn't. The Just World Fallacy is something I wish were not a fallacy.
Save the nonsense characterizations and dismissals. What actual evidence do you have? In my experience, that's how things work - not 100% but it's a powerful effect.
Evidence of what? That Lidden is autistic? None, other than the contents of the article and my own knowledge of those traits (that I myself have). That the Just World Fallacy is strong and we all get kicked in the pants because of our better expectations? My evidence is a good 40-50% of my entire life's story, where I have been punished repeatedly for doing the right thing.
To be clear, I am not being dismissive of your comment. I wish very deeply that it were true, and that I am wrong. Unfortunately I don't believe that to be the case.
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Well, he was fired, so there goes any hope of his employer valuing his honesty.
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Id like to have a word with you about confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance.
Perhaps if you had an intelligent, constructive argument of your own, and not a worthless dismissal based on pure ignorance, I'd listen to you.
Or you could interpret my comment charitably, in accordance with the HN guidelines.
When you're entire professional life is based on enforcing the law and dealing with criminals, you end up protecting yourself to avoid cognitive dissonance. I see it all the time with police and judges (so much for your ignorance claim).
As someone raised to place, I later had to learn, dangerous levels of value on honesty and forthrightness and to assume that others would largely do the same, unless they were, you know, those relatively rare bad people... yeah, I'd guess it's just going to result in bad stuff, almost entirely.
Cheaters never win, liars never prosper—sadly, these are closer to being the exact opposite of the truth, than to being true. Substitute "usually" and "often" and it's getting near to the truth.
There's a popular 'wisdom' to dismiss things like honesty, but they actually do work, and they are used widely by most successful professionals, in my experience.
Yes, they aren't usually sufficient by themselves - you need other things too. And sometimes the payoff is later, as I suggest it will be for Lidden. And people point to failures but nothing succeeds all the time; it's the distribution of outcomes you should look at: Lying fails more and worse and it damages and sometimes destroys the most valuable things in the world: your self-respect, your reputation with others, your relationships, and trust.
Trust is one of the most powerful techniques in business and life. With it, people can make any arrangement with a few words, and not expend resources ensuring and verifying the other people do it. People trust me and I trust them (the ones I have relationships with), and that allows us to move quickly and accomplish much more.
Integrity does one more great thing, it sets an example for others. People are social creatures that follow the herd much more than they realize. If you behave with integrity, you establish a norm that people follow. If you do the wrong thing, you have the same effect. I think Trump, the Republicans, and the far right are having that effect. We are each responsible for our communities - we are the doers and makers, not consumers of morality (except children and maybe others unsophisticated in these things).
It's our free will, you can choose either - an understanding going back to the Genesis and further. And the consequences are very real.
I agree with every single thing you just wrote, and yet it doesn't address the fact that the world is an unfair place and that being too honest is a character fault, maybe a different take on the meaning of "discretion" in "Discretion is the better part of valor" best expresses what I had originally meant by "overabundance of honesty".
I'm an extremely honest person, and it has paid dividends personally and professionally. It's also cost me a /lot/. But I am not "honest to a fault", which is a saying for a reason. I know when it's better to shut my mouth than to speak out, and sometimes I speak out even though I know I will suffer for it because it's the right thing to do, but it's not /always/ the right thing to do.
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