Comment by hx8
19 days ago
Entry level courses are suppose to provide the perquisite background knowledge. You cannot take Data Structures until you've taken Computer Science 1 & 2. If students do not learn programming basics in Computer Science 1 & 2 they should be failed, where they can either retake the class or move to something that better aligns with their abilities and interest. The introductory classes serve to weed out the students that will not perform well in the department. Every department has these.
At my university (15 years ago), less than 1/4 of the people that started Computer Science 1 ended up starting Data Structures, but over 90% of the students that started Data Structures graduated from the department.
My thoughts? Utilize these introductory courses to set the standards expected from students, and expect a lot of freshmen to drop out. Additionally, I do put some blame on high schools for not teaching students fundamental skills like how to take good notes, how to read books, how to write sentences, and how to sit still for an entire lecture. If the standard that college students are educated to falls, then that blame belongs to the colleges.
You're kinda ignoring my point though - as a teacher (if I was), there is no way for me to unilaterally control what students have learned in those prerequisite classes. And clearly that's not working. Students entering my hypothetical classroom are coming in with insufficient knowledge to be successful. What can I alone, right now, do about it in my class?
Sure, I agree it's a systemic problem that needs to be addressed holistically, but I also need a plan for what to do in my classroom right now with these particular students. And I don't feel good about either passing those who haven't learned the material or failing 80% of the class.
If I was ignoring your point, it was unintentional because I was thinking about it through a systems level perspective and not at an individual lecturer's perspective. I didn't realize that was a concern of yours.
One thing I would try is to give students a scary speech on day 1. "This isn't going to be an easy class, I expect you to read the material, I will not be sharing my lecture notes, I'm a tough grader" etc etc.
I think an entrance exam is acceptable.
Having re-read my prior comment, I agree that I was unclear. Thanks for your comment. It sounds like we're probably 90-100% in agreement.
I'm thinking for intro just tell the students they are guaranteed a b- if they skip everything. Just acknowledge the transactionalism.
But the entry to the next class level requires a passing grade on the final exam, and DON'T water that down.
And of course, the exorbitant cost of college was unmentioned. These people are buying two new cars a year to go there. That uod the ante on the transactionalism substantially, and colleges everywhere would rather mint b+ degrees for 250k than impose standards