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Comment by pembrook

16 days ago

On a trade weighted basis it’s more like 3%-4%. The US is indeed lower on average, but marginally by like 1-2% on average.

But I think the concern is more key industries for the US like autos, tech (EU never ending fines are essentially tariffs), etc. where the disparity is more dramatic. But it’s still not a 20% difference.

Another concern is the devaluation of the Euro vs the dollar due to certain economic policies. Which again is a defacto tariff.

Anyways, my guess is this is a negotiating position since 20% seems excessive, but I could be wrong.

26 comments

pembrook

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jeltz  16 days ago

EU's fines are not tariffs. They are fines for breaking the law. EU companies are also fined.

youngtaff  16 days ago

> EU never ending fines are essentially tariffs)

Comply with EU legislation for activity within the EU and there are no fines so it’s hardly a tariff

  • pembrook  16 days ago

    Listen I get this is wildly counter-narrative on HN (all tech legislation = good and EU = default good on this forum) so I will never win this argument.

    But I’ve dealt closely with EU compliance on these matters, and the fines are absolutely levied selectively and in bad faith on areas that are impossible to comply with on the timelines provided or ever. They have absolutely turned into strategically punitive taxes on an industry that the EU has no answer to, so in effect, yes, they are tariffs.

    • olau  16 days ago

      I have also dealt with EU compliance, and I have never seen the EU act quickly on anything concerning business. It's a slow, bureaucratic institution.

      With all due respect, when you are given years to comply, the problem is not that the timeline is impossible, but that your organization chooses to ignore the regulation.

      If the same laws had been passed in the US, the company would have complied already.

    • throwaway_20357  16 days ago

      Yes, fines sometimes appear levied selectively. Where do you draw the line though? Would you consider the tens of billions Volkswagen had to spent in the US to settle their emissions scandal as "tariffs"?

orwin  16 days ago

I mean, if you respect the law, you don't get fined. How hard it is?

  • pembrook  16 days ago

    Yep, and if you respect the tariff, you don't get fined. How hard is it?

    "THE LAW IS THE LAW" is not an logical argument. Tariffs are also imposed via legislation (laws).

    Just as EU companies have to abide by EU privacy regs, US firms also have to abide by US tariff regs.

    • orwin  16 days ago

      > Yep, and if you respect the tariff, you don't get fined. How hard is it?

      Exactly, so we agree fines are not tariffs then?

      > Just as EU companies have to abide by EU privacy regs, US firms also have to abide by US tariff regs.

      Yes, also by nature, only importers pay tariffs, so most tarrifs will be paid by US firms, just like most EU fines are paid by EU companies. I don't see a disagreement here.

      > "THE LAW IS THE LAW" is not an logical argument

      It's not mine. I'm saying that if you don't commit a crime or by negligence let a crime happen, you won't get fined. Some criminals are never caught, and we can talk about two-tiered justice system, but just, I don't know... Don't commit crime? The risk to be fined will be 0 then.

  • gman83  16 days ago

    This whole "the EU fining us for breaking EU law is a tariff" narrative is such BS. The big tech companies just don't like the privacy & consumer protection laws in the EU so now they're getting the US government to help them bully the EU into submission.