Comment by simplify
14 days ago
Everyone has a "religion" – i.e. a system of values they subscribe to.
Secular Americans are annoying because they believe they don't have one, and instead think they're just "good people", calling those who break their core values "bad people".
> Any position is a bias. A flat earther would consider a round-earther biased.
That is not what a religion is.
> Secular Americans are annoying because they believe they don't have one
Why is that a problem to you?
> and instead think they're just "good people", calling those who break their core values "bad people".
No, not really. Someone is not good or bad because you agree with them. Even a religious person can recognise that an atheist doing charitable work is being good, regardless of whether they share a specific set of belief.
The attitude you describe is wrong, and from my experience much more common in religious fundamentalists than radical atheists (the vast majority of people in western democracies do not care whether you have a religion). I have never seen an atheist saying that. But I’ve had priests telling me that I had not "rejected Satan" because I was not baptised.
> Why is that a problem to you?
Because seculars/athiests often believe that they're superior to the "stupid, God-believing religious" people, since their beliefs are obviously based on "pure logic and reason".
Yet, when you boil down anyone's value system to its fundamental essence, it turns out to always be a religious-like belief. No human value is based on pure logic, and it's annoying to see someone pretend otherwise.
> Someone is not good or bad because you agree with them
Right, that's what I was arguing against.
> Even a religious person can recognise that an atheist doing charitable work is being good
Sure, but for the sake of argument, I'm honing in on the word "good" here. You can only call something "good" if it aligns with your personal value system.
> The attitude you describe is wrong
You haven't demonstrated how. Could just be a misunderstanding.
People have value systems, yes. What's "boiling down" a value system?
You don't get to co-opt everybody as cryptically religious just because they have values.
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I follow a secular humanist moral system as best I can. I have tolerance for those who have tolerance for me. I grew up amongst fundamentalist christians and fundamentalist anything (christian, muslim, buddhist, whatever) leave a bad taste in my mouth. I don't care about your religion just don't try to force it on me or try to make me live by its moral system and you won't hear a peep out of me about what you're doing as long as it's not harming others.
That's a fine attitude, but now you're describing your own beliefs rather than "the right" or "the left".
Statistically, white people make more money than black people and men make more money than women and there are differences in their proportions in various occupations. This could be caused by cultural differences that correlate with race, or hormonal differences that cause behavioral differences and correlate with sex, or it could be caused by racism and sexism. Much of the left takes it as an effectively religious position that the latter predominates even into present day. Many of them are quite militant and aggressive about it, and in particular will try to ruin anyone who presents evidence to the contrary or who opposes policies that would actively perpetrate injustice if their sacred assumptions weren't true anymore. Which isn't consistent with "live and let live".
And that's the nature of politics. You're never passing a law by a margin of 53 to 47 because everybody agrees with it. That's the 53% telling the 47% how to live.
"Only the other side does this" is false purity. There are no saints in Washington.
While I believe there might be different explanations for the outcomes we observe I also believe that default hypothesis should be that there is racism and sexism. And there are facts (women were permitted to vote in the US like 100 years ago, and entered general workforce when?), observations (I saw sexism and racism at work) and general studies (I.e people have tendency to have biases among other things) to support that attributing differences to biology or whatever should be under very high scrutiny.
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