Comment by amelius
11 days ago
I don't understand people who want to defend Apple in this case. UK is a functioning democracy, and why would you want to put a (foreign) company above that? If you want change, you know the route ...
11 days ago
I don't understand people who want to defend Apple in this case. UK is a functioning democracy, and why would you want to put a (foreign) company above that? If you want change, you know the route ...
I don't understand your comment. Apple seems to be engaging with the order in the appropriate way under a functioning democracy, i.e. by challenging it in the courts.
Yes, but this is the country that invented the CCTV.
Secret trials to enact mass surveillance on an unknowing population (the original demand gagged Apple from talking about it) doesn't sound like a "functioning democracy" to me.
I don't know of any country with fully open governance.
There are always decisions or information which is kept secret/illegal to publish.
And which parts of that governance can be kept secret should be subject to continuous review. Openness must be carefully guarded.
"Fully open" is a strawman. These are not names of MI5 agents, or a list of active police investigations. This is a massive breach of privacy of every UK citizen, and forced recruitment of every company into a government informant, forcing them to lie to their users that they're being given privacy, whilst informing on them.
It is trying to keep the existence of the Stasi a secret.
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Maybe there's a healthy middle ground.
I think you vastly misunderstand or are oversimplifying the problem here. They actually spoke up against a government mandated privacy violation.
What I am worried about really is Google, Meta etc did not speak up against it and likely have had the same requests. So I am worried about some foreign companies complying with my government. And very surprised that one particular foreign company gives more of a shit about me as an end user than my own government.
I don't think it's fair to tar Meta with that brush. WhatApp have said repeatedly they'll leave the UK before disabling E2EE.
I don't believe they've commented on this issue at all and they carry more messages than Apple do in the UK.
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Even functional democracies make mistakes. Calling them out is part of the correction process.
"functioning" is a reach.
A functioning justice system is an important part of a functioning democracy.
Surely you are implying that everything in a "functioning democracy" can be solved by voting... I know a ton of pro-EU people that might want to have a talk with you...
Surely you're not saying that leaving the EU wasn't democratic?
The UK is not a functioning democracy, at all.
Well it is because the judiciary smacked the secrecy side of it down pretty hard to make sure that it was done in public. That's a pretty strong indicator of a functioning democracy.
The judiciary is (thankfully) the most undemocratic institution in Britain. It functions well because it is undemocratic. It has no place being democratic. In no sense does its effectiveness indicate a healthy democracy.
The UK has not had any real political activity for 100 years. It's all a show.
If the UK represented the British natives then a lot of things would be happening that would get me banned from this website :)
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It's run by a government elected with 34% of the vote. Before that, 43% of the vote. Before that 43%. Before that 37%.
None of that sounds like democracy to me.
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Come on pal.