If anything negative you can say about Israel is equated to antisemitism then Israel gets a free pass. Hamas engaged in terrorism, but Israel's response was out of proportion. Saying that aloud doesn't make one antisemitic. The ICC and UN are not antisemitic organizations for ordering arrest of Netanyahu and condemning Israel's use of excessive force.
What would have been a proportional response? Is it a numbers game? lets do 2x? 5x? 10x?
In the gilad shalit deal Palestinians established the proportion of 1 Israeli to 1027 Palestinians.
So on Oct 7 - 1,195 were murdered, by your standards Israel should have killed 1,227,265 Palestinians.
First of all, the proportional response should be delivered directly to the source: Iran. There are lots of bad guys in Gaza, but there are lots of innocent people too. Indiscriminately killing everyone is not the solution.
> If anything negative you can say about Israel is equated to antisemitism then Israel gets a free pass.
I am not arguing this. Everyone is free to criticize Israel; when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
> but Israel's response was out of proportion
Why do you say this? What would a proportionate response have looked like to an attempt to conquer your country by firing 5,000 rockets while 6,000 people invaded and murdered everyone they could find? Bear in mind, that immediately afterwards, Hamas leaders promised to repeat October 7th again and again until Israel was annihilated.
> when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
And where it gets disturbing is when you make the claim of different standard without any evidence, and launch accusations of antisemitism.
Not everyone in Gaza is Hamas. As of January 2025, at least 46,707 Palestinians have been reported killed, including about 18,000 children. Israel has a right to annihilate Hamas, but those 18,000 children were not Hamas.
>I am not arguing this. Everyone is free to criticize Israel; when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
What different standard is being applied?
>Why do you say this? What would a proportionate response have looked like to an attempt to conquer your country by firing 5,000 rockets while 6,000 people invaded and murdered everyone they could find? Bear in mind, that immediately afterwards, Hamas leaders promised to repeat October 7th again and again until Israel was annihilated.
A proportionate response is not denying food, water, and medical aid to civilians. It's not destroying every school and hospital in the region. It's not committing genocide. You look at the situation as a zero sum game where only Israelis or Palestinians can live. Hamas is not all Palestinians and destroying their homes and families does not make them righteous or productive.
Maybe taking some effort to address the issues that have created the circumstances of the attack in the first place would be the better option. Like giving Palestinians either their own country or at least equal status in Israel. Maybe not taking their land and settling it. One cannot maintain inequality and peace. 50,000 Palestinians lost their lives for 1,000 Israelis. Does that seem proportionate to you?
1. OK, great: this is a legitimate argument against the existence of Israel. So we can then expect Israel to be the focus of 0.5% of anti-nationalist protests, since it is one of ~200 countries.
2. What is the "correct" number of fatalities when fighting a defensive war against an enemy committed to annihilating your country? And besides, even Hamas now admits that 72% of combat-aged fatalities they have recorded were men.
3. I never said carte blanche; I just find it curious that people find so much time in their day to protest against Israel, but when Alawites are massacred in Syria, civilians slaughtered in Sudan, or hundreds of thousands of children starve in Yemen, nobody says "boo". Surely you value the lives of innocent Muslims everywhere the same?
> 72% of combat-aged fatalities they have recorded were men
I don’t think this is the point in your favor that you think it is. “Combat-aged” excludes children and elderly, which are the most reprehensible deaths. And this means that over a quarter of combat-aged deaths were women. Women in this situation are quite unlikely to be combatants.
If anything negative you can say about Israel is equated to antisemitism then Israel gets a free pass. Hamas engaged in terrorism, but Israel's response was out of proportion. Saying that aloud doesn't make one antisemitic. The ICC and UN are not antisemitic organizations for ordering arrest of Netanyahu and condemning Israel's use of excessive force.
What would have been a proportional response? Is it a numbers game? lets do 2x? 5x? 10x? In the gilad shalit deal Palestinians established the proportion of 1 Israeli to 1027 Palestinians. So on Oct 7 - 1,195 were murdered, by your standards Israel should have killed 1,227,265 Palestinians.
First of all, the proportional response should be delivered directly to the source: Iran. There are lots of bad guys in Gaza, but there are lots of innocent people too. Indiscriminately killing everyone is not the solution.
5 replies →
> If anything negative you can say about Israel is equated to antisemitism then Israel gets a free pass.
I am not arguing this. Everyone is free to criticize Israel; when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
> but Israel's response was out of proportion
Why do you say this? What would a proportionate response have looked like to an attempt to conquer your country by firing 5,000 rockets while 6,000 people invaded and murdered everyone they could find? Bear in mind, that immediately afterwards, Hamas leaders promised to repeat October 7th again and again until Israel was annihilated.
> when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
And where it gets disturbing is when you make the claim of different standard without any evidence, and launch accusations of antisemitism.
Not everyone in Gaza is Hamas. As of January 2025, at least 46,707 Palestinians have been reported killed, including about 18,000 children. Israel has a right to annihilate Hamas, but those 18,000 children were not Hamas.
8 replies →
>I am not arguing this. Everyone is free to criticize Israel; when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
What different standard is being applied?
>Why do you say this? What would a proportionate response have looked like to an attempt to conquer your country by firing 5,000 rockets while 6,000 people invaded and murdered everyone they could find? Bear in mind, that immediately afterwards, Hamas leaders promised to repeat October 7th again and again until Israel was annihilated.
A proportionate response is not denying food, water, and medical aid to civilians. It's not destroying every school and hospital in the region. It's not committing genocide. You look at the situation as a zero sum game where only Israelis or Palestinians can live. Hamas is not all Palestinians and destroying their homes and families does not make them righteous or productive.
Maybe taking some effort to address the issues that have created the circumstances of the attack in the first place would be the better option. Like giving Palestinians either their own country or at least equal status in Israel. Maybe not taking their land and settling it. One cannot maintain inequality and peace. 50,000 Palestinians lost their lives for 1,000 Israelis. Does that seem proportionate to you?
[flagged]
1. OK, great: this is a legitimate argument against the existence of Israel. So we can then expect Israel to be the focus of 0.5% of anti-nationalist protests, since it is one of ~200 countries.
2. What is the "correct" number of fatalities when fighting a defensive war against an enemy committed to annihilating your country? And besides, even Hamas now admits that 72% of combat-aged fatalities they have recorded were men.
3. I never said carte blanche; I just find it curious that people find so much time in their day to protest against Israel, but when Alawites are massacred in Syria, civilians slaughtered in Sudan, or hundreds of thousands of children starve in Yemen, nobody says "boo". Surely you value the lives of innocent Muslims everywhere the same?
> 72% of combat-aged fatalities they have recorded were men
I don’t think this is the point in your favor that you think it is. “Combat-aged” excludes children and elderly, which are the most reprehensible deaths. And this means that over a quarter of combat-aged deaths were women. Women in this situation are quite unlikely to be combatants.
The correct number of non-Hamas fatalities is 0.
1 reply →
[flagged]
1 reply →