Comment by breadwinner
5 days ago
If anything negative you can say about Israel is equated to antisemitism then Israel gets a free pass. Hamas engaged in terrorism, but Israel's response was out of proportion. Saying that aloud doesn't make one antisemitic. The ICC and UN are not antisemitic organizations for ordering arrest of Netanyahu and condemning Israel's use of excessive force.
What would have been a proportional response? Is it a numbers game? lets do 2x? 5x? 10x? In the gilad shalit deal Palestinians established the proportion of 1 Israeli to 1027 Palestinians. So on Oct 7 - 1,195 were murdered, by your standards Israel should have killed 1,227,265 Palestinians.
First of all, the proportional response should be delivered directly to the source: Iran. There are lots of bad guys in Gaza, but there are lots of innocent people too. Indiscriminately killing everyone is not the solution.
You still didn't define what's the proportional response.
Come on armchair commander show us your battle plans for Iran. Do we nuke it? Do we destroy all the dams? Do we hit just the nuclear facilities? Or do we eliminate their oil industry? Maybe just all the military bases, oh we forgot all the subterrains rocket facilities, do you want to invade Iraq style?
If the IDF would have Indiscriminately killing people then the number would have been 10x, and you know it.
A) It's hard to argue that the war in Gaza was indiscriminate when the IDF achieved the highest combatant-to-civilian casualty ratio in the history of urban combat, despite Hamas hiding in tunnels underneath population centers.
B) When soldiers flood across your border from a neighboring polity by the thousands, it would be an abdication of sovereignty not to defend against that immediate threat, regardless of the enemy's funding sources.
3 replies →
> If anything negative you can say about Israel is equated to antisemitism then Israel gets a free pass.
I am not arguing this. Everyone is free to criticize Israel; when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
> but Israel's response was out of proportion
Why do you say this? What would a proportionate response have looked like to an attempt to conquer your country by firing 5,000 rockets while 6,000 people invaded and murdered everyone they could find? Bear in mind, that immediately afterwards, Hamas leaders promised to repeat October 7th again and again until Israel was annihilated.
> when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
And where it gets disturbing is when you make the claim of different standard without any evidence, and launch accusations of antisemitism.
Not everyone in Gaza is Hamas. As of January 2025, at least 46,707 Palestinians have been reported killed, including about 18,000 children. Israel has a right to annihilate Hamas, but those 18,000 children were not Hamas.
> Israel has a right to annihilate Hamas
How should they go about this? What rules should they follow? And when other countries violate these rules, are you commensurately outraged?
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1) Hamas run health ministry numbers are not trustworthy
2) You do know that Hamas uses children soldiers right?
3) Not everyone in Gaza is Hamas true, but most of them (pre war) and most west bank Palestinians (currently) support them
4) If Egypt allowed non combatants to flee, they would be safe, however they closed the door or asked 1000s of dollars in bribes, but then they couldn't be used against Israel like the Arab nations always do.
>I am not arguing this. Everyone is free to criticize Israel; when it becomes antisemitic is when you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold everyone else.
What different standard is being applied?
>Why do you say this? What would a proportionate response have looked like to an attempt to conquer your country by firing 5,000 rockets while 6,000 people invaded and murdered everyone they could find? Bear in mind, that immediately afterwards, Hamas leaders promised to repeat October 7th again and again until Israel was annihilated.
A proportionate response is not denying food, water, and medical aid to civilians. It's not destroying every school and hospital in the region. It's not committing genocide. You look at the situation as a zero sum game where only Israelis or Palestinians can live. Hamas is not all Palestinians and destroying their homes and families does not make them righteous or productive.
Maybe taking some effort to address the issues that have created the circumstances of the attack in the first place would be the better option. Like giving Palestinians either their own country or at least equal status in Israel. Maybe not taking their land and settling it. One cannot maintain inequality and peace. 50,000 Palestinians lost their lives for 1,000 Israelis. Does that seem proportionate to you?