Comment by dns_snek
5 days ago
Setting aside that this is looking at the wrong side of the market like often happens in these discussions, what do you as a consumer do when Android or Huawei do something else that's a deal breaker for you?
5 days ago
Setting aside that this is looking at the wrong side of the market like often happens in these discussions, what do you as a consumer do when Android or Huawei do something else that's a deal breaker for you?
But this is exactly the argument against forcing Apple to change. The reason I use iOS is because of the App Store. If meta create a meta store for Facebook and Instagram, and pull it from the App Store, then the platform that I use for that feature is no longer viable for me, and neither is the competing platform. Right now you have a choice, as do I - an open ecosystem on android or a closed ecosystem on iOS. By forcing iOS to open up, people who actively choose the closed ecosystem for guaranteed compatibility, tighter integrations and a less customisable ux are removed of their option.
To use the sandbox analogy, there are two sandboxes. A lets you bring your own toys, B only lets you choose from the toys they provide. I choose to go to B because of the toys they provide and because I don’t want to deal with the toys other people bring. People from A like the look of my sandbox so the rules get changed, and now there’s two sandboxes with the same rules, you have two choices and my preference is gone.
Every single thread on this topic devolves into "if you don't like Apple just use Android" or vice versa and it's so predictable and boring. Again, like I pointed out in my previous comment, it's not just about you or me as consumers and our immediate preferences.
Apple's and Google's anti-competitive behavior is stifling innovation with their policies and fees. First and foremost this affects developers/businesses who need to reach Apple's and Google's users, and if the only way for them to reach us for technical reasons is through native apps, then they're subject to whatever insane policies and fees these companies demand.
This is what makes them gatekeepers and it should be fairly obvious how being in that position, while dictating silly rules about what is or isn't acceptable (based purely on preference, like "no porn", "no game emulators"), charging a 30% tax on everyone's revenue while prohibiting communication with your own customers about alternative payment methods results in bad long term outcomes.
Also your example with Meta's apps is a false dilemma. If you want to use their apps you can always install them from their own hypothetical app store, your choice isn't being taken away from you and it doesn't make the platform any less viable.
> By forcing iOS to open up, people who actively choose the closed ecosystem for guaranteed compatibility, tighter integrations and a less customisable ux are removed of their option.
Can you elaborate on how this applies to your usage of Facebook?
> Every single thread on this topic devolves into "if you don't like Apple just use Android" or vice versa and it's so predictable and boring.
But this is exactly why this whole topic isn’t an issue. There currently _is_ choice, competition, and a viable alternative in the marketplace (unlike in the web browser space for example where chrome is eating everyone’s lunch).
> and if the only way for them to reach us for technical reasons is through native apps, then they're subject to whatever insane policies and fees these companies demand.
> based purely on preference, like "no porn", "no game emulators Except it’s not. PWAs and websites exist. People can watch, and pay for porn on safari just like they can on their laptop or desktop computer. Emulators you have a point in, but on my first point - if you want a platform that lets you bring your own toys, android lets you install them.
> charging a 30% tax
It’s not a tax. It’s a platform fee. If it was a tax, it would be applied to web browser purchases too, or all purchases made through Apple/Gooblr pay. I am perfectly free to distribute my android emulator via patreon and provide an APK to install and have been for a long time.
> Also your example with Meta's apps is a false dilemma. If you want to use their apps you can always install them from their own hypothetical app store, your choice isn't being taken away from you and it doesn't make the platform any less viable.
So it’s only a false dilemma when you disagree? My choice is being restricted in this. I want to use metas services, I don’t want to give them the keys to the kingdom. If they ship a meta store, then they don’t need to adhere to apples store rules (which is exactly the point) meaning they can do whatever they want. If I wanted that, I’d use another platform that exists where meta are free to publish a Facebook app that doesn’t adhere to the platform Guidelines.
> Can you elaborate on how this applies to your usage of Facebook?
I didn’t say this about Facebook, I used meta as one example of a service provider. I can give you another instead though - the App Store rules require Apple Pay as options for all apps. I trust Apple to handle and manage my payments appropriately, but I don’t trust ketchapp (they make shovelware games that are ad ridden and iap infested hell holes.) if ketchapp decide they want to collect extra data and not pay the “tax”, then they can publish a new ketchapp store where I can play their games, subject to their rules, i.e. they now manage my card payments directly. I don’t trust _them_ to not have dark patterns around subscription management, payment methods etc.
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Stop using them. What do you do if every car manufacturer does something that's a "deal breaker"? Don't make a deal with them by not buying a car.
> What do you do if every car manufacturer does something that's a "deal breaker"
Sane societies recognize the problem and regulate it out of existence.
Preference is subjective. I hate touch screens in cars that so anything but provide a screen for my phone, others love them. Should we ban touch screen controls because of my preference? I like to have a curated app store for my phone and not have a free-for-all with multiple stores of varying quality where I need to set up a new store just to use a popular app. So I can buy an iphone and people who have a different preference can buy an Android phone. If consumers actually cared that much they'd just avoid iOS. It's the magic of the market. Let's have consumers put their money where their mouth is! Stated preference and revealed preference often differ for a reason.
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I think it's more likely that insane societies do - elevate one person's consumer choices to national scale.
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