Comment by svat
20 hours ago
Loved the fact that this post didn't go where I expected it to (or at least, didn't remain there). That a book like this probably wouldn't be published today, or would be less popular today, is a point that has been made many times by many people, about many different books, TV shows, jokes, etc. But the author actually moves on from there; the observation is that even in his own opinion, the same joke isn't funny today — in fact, the equivalent thing being done today just looks “grubby”.
So it's something deeper than the usual “political correctness” debate: the question really is, what is it about the world today that trumps the hallowed British traditions of celebrating failure, of moaning, of affectionate self-mockery? Why isn't the joke funny any more, or why doesn't the mocking seem affectionate?
(He points at the malaise that exists today—it was only funny when there was some hope—but I'm not sure that's the only answer…)
Often when someone, especially a comedian, complains about “political correctness”, what they actually mean is: nobody is laughing at the same joke I told 20 years ago
Sensibilities change. The sense of what is and isn’t punching down changes. Even the appetite for punching down changes.
People who whine about “PC” always pretend like it’s the death of comedy or speech or whatever, and yet… there are younger people building great careers!
And yes, there is a real worrying erosion of free speech - but 98% these people could keep saying exactly what they’ve been saying - they’re just not getting the laughs they think they’re entitled to.
> Sensibilities change. The sense of what is and isn’t punching down changes. Even the appetite for punching down changes.
Yes, and the way it changes tells us something about our society, which I believe this article is trying to address.
Read the article, its much more interesting and reflective that that
> Often when someone, especially a comedian, complains about “political correctness”, what they actually mean is: nobody is laughing at the same joke I told 20 years ago
Don't rephrase others' sentiments to suit your own narrative. Soothsayers are bullshitters.
When comedians complain about political correctness, there is no alternate meaning. They are upset that they can't tell the same jokes they told 20 years ago, to the same audiences from 20 years ago that continue to enjoy them, because external forces mob, heckle, and harass them so they cannot serve their customers...
...which conveniently provides opportunities for those younger people to "build great careers," by eliminating all legacy competition.
In any other context it'd be driving the local kebab shop owner out of town because someone with influence wants to open a salad bar in its place.
It's mob rule, not "social justice."
>mob rule
Unless there's some kind of threat of physical force involved it's not. It's just a critical mass of people having opinions you don't like and voicing those opinions.
If the market of ideas decides your ideas are not valuable anymore for whatever reason you're going to suffer what scarcity feels like.
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Mob rule is when people don't like my comedy any more. Got it.
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> Sensibilities change
If people are literally calling the police, they aren't changing, they are being suppressed/punished.
> they’re just not getting the laughs they think they’re entitled to
Why are the comedians 'entitled' rather than the people who go to their show and complain?
I think the difference is between, let's say, Ricky Gervais making a joke about a little boy with cancer, and Ricky Gervais making a joke about THAT little boy with cancer right there in Seat 7G. Everyone now knows these crap towns are dying.
If someone looks a bit pale and sickly, it's often considered fair game to make fun of their appearance (eat some vegetables, get some exercise etc)... Whereas if they have severe health problems it's no longer tasteful. This fact has not changed, it's basic human decency. The situation is what's changed.
The same phenomenon exists when people talk about the movie Blazing Saddles.
It's transgressive content worked because it was satirizing "wholesome" Wild West shows, holding up a funhouse mirror to their less-obvious absurdities and racist aspects. It was so successful, its targets don't exist anymore.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jzMFoNZeZm0
This is a good question..it just occurred to me that perhaps its because its so much easier for the people who would be the target of the joke to answer back now?
Social media gives the possibility of instant reply, whereas if you publish a book in 2003 called 'crap towns' how can the so-called chavs answer back? Publish their own book? Write to the local paper?
So its a side effect of how we can all hear each other better now (for better or for worse)
Oh, that's insightful. Author could have encountered a light form of elite convergence 20 years ago when interacting with fellow writers and journalists, who probably didn't live in the blighted areas, and could take the joke on behalf of their cities. Being from a crap town is fine if you're don't live in the crappy part of town.
I'll add that the decade-long austerity measures let people know that it's actual class warfare, and it's no longer a laughing matter as it was in 2003 when it seemed fixable. Now it's clear the people in charge are not interested in fixing anything. A joke about someone's health situation is received better if the condition is treatable, but less so of they are terminal.
Humor is as much about context as content
It went straight into the self-flagellation territory I knew I’d get from a British author. It makes perfect sense that he would change his opinion to naive structuralism cause that's what's politically popular in the UK right now.
I heard overwrought reductionism is the new thing.
I though I had a decent command of English language, even if I am not a native speaker, but I have no ide what is "naive structuralism" or "overwrought reductionism" in this context.
Would any of you care to elaborate? I am serious, I am not familiar much with the UK political scene so can't tie these normal sounding phrases to anything, and would honestly appreciate some help.
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