{"id":43813841,"user":"queenkjuul","time":1745776506,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

Drunk driving is also intentional","comments":[{"id":43813870,"user":"DangitBobby","time":1745776880,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

No. The intent of drunk driving is to get around. There is no malicious intent, just extreme negligence.","comments":[{"id":43814187,"user":"brigandish","time":1745779615,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

Negligence, and recklessness, which is where I would place drunk driving, are both mens rea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence","comments":[{"id":43814505,"user":"DangitBobby","time":1745782658,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

We are discussing intent.","comments":[{"id":43817608,"user":"brigandish","time":1745815059,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

Mens rea is criminal intent, actus reus is criminal action. Without mens rea there is no crime (there being the exception of strict liability crimes, which do not apply here and would not involve intent at all anyway).

From [1]:

> It is generally agreed that the essential ingredients of any crime are (1) a voluntary act or omission (actus reus), accompanied by (2) a certain state of mind (mens rea).

[1] https://www.britannica.com/topic/criminal-law/The-elements-o...","comments":[{"id":43821149,"user":"Doxin","time":1745845708,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

"Mens rea" is generally a lower bar than what "intent" means in common usage. Mens rea is refers to the intent to take a specific action. Intent in common usage refers to the intent to cause a specific outcome.

For drunk driving there definitely is mens rea. A drunk driver did intend to get in their car to drive. Whether or not they intended to create grave risk to life is up for debate.","comments":[{"id":43842381,"user":"brigandish","time":1745999907,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

I can only say that you've completely misunderstood mens rea and must have ignored the links I provided. No, mens rea is not a lower bar than "intent" in colloquial language, and it is not about just actions and not outcomes, else how could anyone commit intentional murder? That is covered in mens rea by the concept of specific intent and general intent.

The usual split in levels of intent depend on jurisdiction but this is a good summary from Wikipedia on the (general) US system application of mens rea that is easy for me to paste, so:

Negligently: a "reasonable person" ought to be aware of a "substantial and unjustifiable risk" that is a "gross deviation" from a normal standard of care.

Recklessly: the actor "consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk" in "gross deviation" from a normal standard of care.

Knowingly: the actor is "practically certain" that his conduct will lead to the result, or is aware to a high probability that his conduct is of a prohibited nature, or is aware to a high probability that the attendant circumstances exist.

Purposefully: the actor consciously engages in conduct and "desires" the result. The Supreme Court has not found a large difference between purposeful and knowing conduct, not only in theory but also in application.

Drunk driving is reckless behaviour for anyone who knows what being drunk is.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":5,"url":"item?id=43842381"},{"id":43833240,"user":"queenkjuul","time":1745937213,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

Getting into your car and driving while you're drunk IS creating grave risk to life.

I can't go shooting cans in my backyard and pretend I'm not risking my neighbors lives.","comments":[{"id":43855504,"user":"Doxin","time":1746092488,"time_ago":"8 months ago","type":"comment","content":"

Oh no definitely, but you can still intend to do one and not intend to do the other. For example due to stupidity, or due to not understanding the risk, etc.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":6,"url":"item?id=43855504"}],"comments_count":1,"level":5,"url":"item?id=43833240"}],"comments_count":3,"level":4,"url":"item?id=43821149"}],"comments_count":4,"level":3,"url":"item?id=43817608"}],"comments_count":5,"level":2,"url":"item?id=43814505"}],"comments_count":6,"level":1,"url":"item?id=43814187"}],"comments_count":7,"level":0,"url":"item?id=43813870"}],"comments_count":8,"url":"item?id=43813841"}

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