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Comment by LgWoodenBadger

8 months ago

Within reason, which is why soldiers train with blank-firing adapters and blanks, and not live ordnance when simulating combat.

Turning ADS-B on/off likely has zero effect on the training/fighting relationship.

24 comments

LgWoodenBadger

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ceejayoz  7 months ago

The article says the reason is a bit different - that the route they were practicing is (in theory) sensitive information.

> But the Black Hawk did not operate with the technology because of the confidentiality of the mission for which the crew was practicing. That is because ADS-B Out positions can be obtained by anyone with an internet connection, making the system a potential risk to national security.

Seems like leaving it in listen-only mode would be wise, though.

  • alistairSH  7 months ago

    The route is a public/known helicopter flight path. There's nothing secret about it.

    Here's a map of the helicopter routes in the area. In this case, they were flying on route 4... https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3851p.ct004873/?r=0.67,0.258,0...

    Yes, this group transports VIPs and sometimes does so in secret. This training flight was a "simple" check-ride for the pilot (simple in scare quotes because part of the ride was using the NVGs, which strikes me as fairly ridiculous in the DCA air space).

    • ceejayoz  7 months ago

      The route itself, sure.

      When this specific helicopter/mission joins the route, how fast it goes, what callsign it uses, when it leaves the route, etc. may not be so public. Or at least be treated as "try not to make it unnecessarily public".

      Overclassification is absolutely a thing, too. I recall when the Snowden NSA leaks came out, government employees were still forbidden from reading the documents, even if they were published in the newspapers. Pointless? Yes. But those were the rules.

      4 replies →

  • firesteelrain  7 months ago

    Listen-only mode would be ADS-B In. Black Hawk's support ADS-B Out.

    1. C-17 Globemaster III (transport)

    2. C-130 Hercules (transport)

    3. KC-135 Stratotanker (tanker)

    4. KC-10 Extender (tanker)

    5. P-8 Poseidon (maritime patrol/reconnaissance)

    6. E-3 Sentry (AWACS)

    7. E-8 Joint STARS (reconnaissance)

    ^ above have ADS-B In capability

    This answer on Aviation Stack Exchange did some research into ADS-B statistics for military aircraft: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/107851/military...

    TCAS (collision avoidance) can use Mode A/C/S however it depends on if the aircraft has the earlier or later model TCAS: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/90356/does-tcas...

  • 542354234235  7 months ago

    The route they were training for was to evac government personnel during an emergency (terrorism, incoming attack, etc.). ADS-B is live location whereas transponder is delayed. In a real scenario, you wouldn’t want to be transmitting live location, since whatever the emergency is likely involves targeting of VIP government personnel. But in training, that would not effect your training, since the ADS-B is for others benefit, and doesn’t change your situational awareness or capability.

    edit: To add and make clear, the route will be known for a training or real situation, but it will be delayed. So for training, turning off the ADS-B does not protect the route information and that is why there is no reason to fly with it off for training.

  • xhkkffbf  7 months ago

    They were coming back from Langley. I'm told it was just to "refuel."

    • ceejayoz  7 months ago

      On one hand, I've got a reputable news organization publishing an article with specific information from experts, pilots, etc.

      On the other hand, I've got an internet rando who once told me to Google up MGTOW saying "I'm told".

      Which one would you find credible?