Comment by fsckboy

>the problem was solved in by means of strapping together alternate segments a process invented by Sayers in 1942

UK physicist James Sayers was part of the original team that developed the magnetron in the UK. He did join the Manhattan Project in 1943, so perhaps before that he came over to the US (to Bell Labs) as part of the radar effort: in that case strengthening Bell Labs contributions, weakening any claim to reverse engineering :) When Lee de Forest "invented" the triode tube amplifier, he had no idea how it worked. When Shockley "invented" the transistor, his team grumbled that he had stolen their work (similar to Steve Jobs, the boss, taking over the Macintosh project when his own Lisa project failed) but in any case, it was not actually understood yet how transistors worked. "How the First Transistor Worked: Even its inventors didn’t fully understand the point-contact transistor" https://spectrum.ieee.org/transistor-history

In these cases, the bleeding edge of R and the bleeding edge of D were the same thing. A certain amount of "reverse engineering" would have been mandatory, but it's really "reverse sciencing", "why did my experiment turn out so well", rather than "reverse engineering a competitor's product to understand how did they make it work so well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Radiation_Laboratory

In early 1940, Winston Churchill organized what became the Tizard Mission to introduce U.S. researchers to several new technologies the UK had been developing. Among these was the cavity magnetron, a leap forward in the creation of microwaves that made them practical for use in aircraft for the first time. GEC made 12 prototype cavity magnetrons at Wembley in August 1940, and No 12 was sent to America with Bowen via the Tizard Mission, where it was shown on 19 September 1940 in Alfred Loomis’ apartment. The American NDRC Microwave Committee was stunned at the power level produced. However Bell Labs director Mervin Kelly was upset when it was X-rayed and had eight holes rather than the six holes shown on the GEC plans. After contacting (via the transatlantic cable) Dr Eric Megaw, GEC’s vacuum tube expert, Megaw recalled that when he had asked for 12 prototypes he said make 10 with 6 holes, one with 7 and one with 8; and there was no time to amend the drawings. No 12 with 8 holes was chosen for the Tizard Mission. So Bell Labs chose to copy the sample; and while early British magnetrons had six cavities American ones had eight cavities... By 1943 the [Rad Lab] began to deliver a stream of ever-improved devices, which could be produced in huge numbers by the U.S.'s industrial base. At its peak, the Rad Lab employed 4,000 at MIT and several other labs around the world, and designed half of all the radar systems used during the war.

that seems to be the source of the reverse engineering idea, and I think Bell Labs' role (which is quite important) was more toward perfecting the devices for manufacture at scale, as it was an arm of a giant leading edge industrial company.

I'm not diminishing Bell Labs nor anybody there, it was a lot of smart people.

>...putting it nicely. The magnetron was one of several technologies that the UK transferred to the USA in order to secure assistance in the war effort.

how is that not in the spirit of wartime cooperation? with spirited cooperation, each side contributes in order to get what they want from cooperation

if you want more nuance, the American administration, completely upper class https://oldlifemagazine.com/look-magazine-april-12-1949-fran... was 100% behind helping the UK and got the job done, but we have a political system that has to respond to the common people, and just as the English labour party has never thought "oh, what can we do to help the US?", neither has the American populace in reverse, on top of the traditional American individualism and revulsion toward European monarchical and imperial wars.

Difference is, we don't bitch about it.

Britain is completely entitled to be proud of its absolute grit, prowess, and determination wrt the second world war, but the US did right by them too. America was already on the rise, but not entirely self-confident (that had begun wrt WWI but had not become a birthright till after WWII.) We didn't have a 19th century empire that collapsed (although we were in certain respects a self-contained 19th century western empire), and we were perfectly positioned (geography, population, GDP, English Common Law legal system plus bill of rights, but lacking other tired old ideas about class) to assume the mantles not only of British hegemony, but also French, German, Dutch, Belgian and the other "imperial thrones" that were now unoccupied. it was to our benefit but it was not "our fault" or even "our doing"