Comment by lanfeust6
14 days ago
I'm noticing that leftists overwhelmingly toe the same line on AI skepticism, which suggests to me an ideological motivation.
14 days ago
I'm noticing that leftists overwhelmingly toe the same line on AI skepticism, which suggests to me an ideological motivation.
Chomsky's problem here has nothing to do with his politics, but unfortunately a lot to do with his long-held position in the Nature/Nurture debate - a position that is undermined by the ability of LLMs to learn language without hardcoded grammatical rules:
https://psychologywriting.com/skinner-and-chomsky-on-nature-...
I don't see how the two things are related. Whether acquisition of human language is nature or nurture - it is still learning of some sort.
Yes, maybe we can reproduce that learning process in LLMs, but that doesn't mean the LLMs imitate only the nurture part (might as well be just finetuning), and not the nature part.
An airplane is not an explanation for a bird's flight.
The great breakthrough in AI turned out to be LLMs.
Nature, for an LLM, is its design: graph, starting weights, etc.
Environment, for an LLM, is what happens during training.
LLMs are capable of learning grammar entirely from their environment, which suggests that infants are too, which is bad for Chomsky's position that the basics of grammar are baked into human DNA.
11 replies →
> AI skepticism
Isn't AI optimism an ideological motivation? It's a spectrum, not a mental model.
Whether one expects AI to be powerful or weak should have nothing to do with political slant, but here it seems to inform the opinion. It begs the question: what do they want to be true? The enemy is both too strong and too weak.
They're firmly on one extreme end of the spectrum. I feel as though I'm somewhere in between.
Leftists and intellectuals overlap a lot. LLM text must be still full of six fingered hands to many of them.
For Chomsky specifically, the entire existence of LLM, however it's framed, is a massive middle finger to him and a strike-through on a large part of his academic career. As much as I find his UG theory and its supporters irritating, it might be felt a bit unfair to someone his age.
99%+ of humans on this planet do not investigate an issue, they simply accept a trusted opinion of an issue as fact. If you think this is a left only issue you havent been paying attention.
Usually what happens is the information bubble bursts, and gets corrected, or it just fades out.
Then you obviously didn't listen to a word Chomsky has said on the subject.
I was quite dismissive of him on LLMs until I realized the utter hubris and stupidity of dismissing Chomsky on language.
I think it was someone asking if he was familiar with the Wittgenstein Blue and Brown books and of course because he as already an assistant professor at MIT when they came out.
I still chuckle at my own intellectual arrogance and stupidity when thinking about how I was dismissive of Chomsky on language. I barely know anything and I was being dismissive of one of unquestionable titans and historic figures of a field.
Chomsky has been colossally wrong on universal grammar.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-rebuts-c...
But at least he admits that:
https://dlc.hypotheses.org/1269#
This is a great way to remove any nuance and chance of learning from a conversation. Please don't succumb to black-and-white (or red-and-blue) thinking, it's harmful to your brain.
You're projecting.
Or an ideological alignment of values. Generative AI is strongly associated with large corporations that are untrusted (to put it generously) by those on the left.
An equivalent observation might be that the only people who seem really, really excited about current AI products are grifters who want to make money selling it. Which looks a lot like Blockchain to many.
I think viewing the world as either leftist or right wing is rather limiting philosophy and way to go through life. Most people are a lot more complicated than that.
I have experienced this too. It's definitely part of the religion but I'm not sure why tbh. Maybe they equate it with like tech is bad mkay, which, looking at who leads a lot of the tech companies, is somewhat understandable, altho very myopic.
I see this as much more of a hackers vs. corporations ideological split. Which imperfectly maps to leftism vs conservatism.
The perception on the left is that once again, corporations are foisting products on us that nobody wants, with no concern for safety, privacy, or respect for creators.
For better or worse, the age of garage-tech is mostly dead and Tech has become synonymous with corporatism. This is especially true with GenAI, where the resources to construct a frontier model (or anything remotely close to it) are far outside what a hacker can afford.
> I see this as much more of a hackers vs. corporations ideological split.
That framing may be true within tech circles, not the broader political divide. "Hackers" aren't collectively discounting and ignoring AI tools regardless of their enthusiasm for open-source.
Safety-ism is also most popular among those see useful potential in AI, and a generous enough timeline for AGI.
That makes sense, and there's definitely an element of truth to that position. The trouble is, the response is to dissociate with the technology, which is really not a tenable position if you intend to have a meaningful part in like... anything in the future. What I see-- and this is just my personal experience-- is that leftists tend to want to pretend it isn't happening, or that it won't matter. When it fact nothing matters more.
The deepest of deep ironies: I talk to people all the time talking about ushering in an age of post-capitalism and ignoring AI. When I personally can't see how the AI of the next decade and capitalism can coexist, the latter being based on human labor and all. Like, AI is going to be the reason what you want is going to happen, so why ignore it?