Comment by tim333
7 months ago
I think something Keynes got wrong there and much AI job discussion ignores is people like working, subject to the job being fun. Look at the richest people with no need to work - Musk, Buffett etc. Still working away, often well past retirement age with no need for the money. Keynes himself, wealth and probably with tenure working away on his theories. In the UK you can quite easily do nothing by going on disability allowance and doing nothing and many do but they are not happy.
There can be a certain snobbishness with academics where they are like of course I enjoy working away on my theories of employment but the unwashed masses do crap jobs where they'd rather sit on their arses watching reality TV. But it isn't really like that. Usually.
The reality of most people is that they need to work to financially sustain themselves. Yes, there are people who just like what they do and work regardless, but I think we shouldn't discount the majority which would drop their jobs or at least work less hours had it not been out of the need for money.
Although in democracies we've largely selected that system. I've been to socialist places - Cuba and Albania before communism collapsed where a lot of people didn't do much but were still housed and fed (not very well - ration books) but no one seems to want to vote that stuff in.
The thing about those systems is you'd have to forgo the entire notion about private property and wealth as we currently know it for it to work out. Even then, there would be people who wouldn't want to work/contribute and the majority who would contribute the bare minimum (like you're saying). The percentage of people who'd work because they like it wouldn't be much higher than it is now. Or it might be even lower, as money wouldn't be as much of a factor in one's life.
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While they didn't do much at work and could coast forever, they still had to show up and sit out the hours. And this does seem to correlate highly with ration books. Which are also not amazon-fulfilled, but require going to a store, waiting in line, worring that the rations would run out, yada yada.
I'll take capitalism with all its warts over that workers paradise any day.
How did you visit Albania before communism collapsed? I thought it was closed off from the world.
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What percentage of people would you say like working for fun? Would you really claim they make up a significant portion of society?
Even myself, work a job that I enjoy building things that I’m good at, that is almost stress free, and after 10-15 years find that I would much rather spend time with my family or even spend a day doing nothing rather than spend another hour doing work for other people. the work never stops coming and the meaninglessness is stronger than ever.
I think a lot of people would work fewer hours and probably retire earlier if money were absolutely not in the equation. That said, it's also true that there are a lot of things you realistically can't do on your own--especially outside of software.
Well - I guess you are maybe typical in quite liking the work but wanting to do less hours? I saw some research that hunter gatherers work about 20 hours a week - maybe that's an optimum.
A lot of people like the work they do, but they also like the things they do when they aren't working - more.
Meanwhile your examples for happy working are all billionaires who do w/e tf they want, and your example of sad non working are disabled people.