Comment by cyberax
2 days ago
> Even if you focus only on emissions this completely ignores the cost of congestion, which is huge.
Congestion should be fixed by removing buses, de-densifying city cores, and forcing companies to build offices in a distributed fashion.
Meanwhile, replacing buses with shared taxi-style vehicles will do most of the job, while _reducing_ congestion. It's a bit complicated, but it's entirely possible.
The reason is simple, there is an unavoidable tension between the density of bus stops and the average speed. As a result of frequent stops, in most cities buses move at an average speed of less than 20 km/h.
For example, in Seattle it's 15 km/h. This is just 3 times faster than a rapid walk!
If we reduce the number of cars by 2x by adding mild car-pooling during the rush hour, then we'll have more than enough throughput to eliminate congestion _and_ buses in Seattle. This does not generalize to all cities in the US (e.g. Manhattan needs a serious demolishing to become sane) but usually, it's in the same ballpark.
> Your complaint about self driving buses makes no sense either. If the most polluting part of the bus is the driver then removing the driver makes the bus far, far less polluting.
Sure. But why stop there? Buses have an INCREDIBLE impact in the number of lifetimes wasted during commutes.
> When your arguments don't even make sense on their own terms it suggests that you're making them from an emotional position instead of a rational one. That's ok: if you don't like buses just say so, but be honest about it instead of making spurious arguments.
Nope. There are no rational arguments _for_ urbanism. It's a failed obsolete ideology, and it's leading to the downfall of democracty and the rise of populism.
> Congestion should be fixed by removing buses, de-densifying city cores, and forcing companies to build offices in a distributed fashion.
Yes, let's solve congestion by forcing urban sprawl. Forget any efficiency gains by using denser infrastructure, just make everyone drive 10x as far so there's 10x as much road and therefore 1/10th the congestion!
We already do this. You just described the city of Houston. I've been there, it's ass. And the 14 lane Katy highway does it no favors.
Bus stops are often set too close by municipalities, but that’s driven by the lack of density in US housing. Density drives efficiency.
> Manhattan needs a serious demolishing to become sane
Ah yes, lets demolish one of the most economically productive regions of the USA, both in GDP / capita and GDP / km^2 in order to make it easier for people to drive through it.
Listen to yourself, this is deranged.
> Bus stops are often set too close by municipalities, but that’s driven by the lack of density in US housing. Density drives efficiency.
Doesn't matter, dense cities start having their own issues. Instead of taking "the bus", you'll need to wait for the correct bus to arrive. Also, density drives up misery and nothing else. Proven by the birth rate.
> Ah yes, lets demolish one of the most economically productive regions of the USA, both in GDP / capita and GDP / km^2 in order to make it easier for people to drive through it.
Yup, exactly. There's no freaking reason so much GDP has to be crammed into several square miles of space, sucking the life from everywhere else.