I used to think that I was an atheist, but I realized nothing can be proven presently in any way even if I have opinions, so I decided I have to be agnostic.
So e.g. I have hunches that there's no way there is a God that's in any way as religions might think it is, and I do have a hunch that we somehow happened from probably deterministic chain reactions, but it's a hunch, it's hard to call it a belief, or it's hard to think that I believe there is no God. It's more like a hunch or a thought. Because for all I know we could be some Alien's schoolwork project, but I don't think we are.
In any case as a human I feel like I have evolutionary drive to hold someone responsible, so again I demand whoever is behind all of that to give us those answers. But that is my evolutionary drive, not that I think there's actually someone like that. It's the conflict of evolutionary brain vs the logical thoughts brain.
These different parts in the brain can also agree to many different things, which can ultimately make me much more agreeable person, if I decide to pick one of those opinions.
But I can be very disagreeable too, because I think Big Five said it can lead to success?
>So e.g. I have hunches that there's no way there is a God that's in any way as religions might think it is, and I do have a hunch that we somehow happened from probably deterministic chain reactions, but it's a hunch, it's hard to call it a belief, or it's hard to think that I believe there is no God.
Saying that you know for certain that there is no god(s) is exactly the same as saying you know for sure that there is a god(s). Being agnostic is the realization that you can't be sure one way or the other. We are not omniscient and our reasoning abilities are not flawless. You might have your strong suspicions one way or the other about whether there is a god, but if you aren't certain (as many people are) I consider that as agnostic.
> I used to think that I was an atheist, but I realized nothing can be proven presently in any way even if I have opinions, so I decided I have to be agnostic.
As an atheist myself, I find your type of agnosticism to be overly generous to the religious theories. Do you also think that Russell's Teapot might exist or do you have a limit of unlikeliness that you draw the line at?
In practice, atheists are people who think they know there is no god. Agnostics are people who realize they don’t know much at all about anything related to the origins of things and realize they don’t want to hold unprovable dogmatic beliefs like the religious people do.
I considered myself an atheist for most of my life. As I got older and learned more, this shifted. These days I consider myself agnostic.
If atheism was defined as believing a specific kind of god (e.g. the “father god in the sky that created all things in 6 days”) does not exist, I’d still consider myself an atheist.
But my agnosticism comes from an acknowledgment of our fundamentally limited understanding of certain aspects of existence, and the implications of that specific lack of understanding.
It’s not as if I believe “well maybe the god of Abraham could be real after all but I don’t know” (it seems far more likely that if there’s a god, he/she/it/they are closer to being the stuff of existence than some standalone entity). It’s more that I withhold belief entirely and don’t make absolute claims that are philosophically untenable.
If we figure out how consciousness works or achieve breakthroughs in physics, I could imagine calling myself an atheist again. Until then, agnosticism seems like the most intellectually honest position.
> In practice, atheists are people who think they know there is no god.
Many atheists find a verdict of "not guilty" on the charge "that god exists". It's the equivalent of saying "I don't believe you." That's about it.
Saying "god does not exist" is a claim that itself has a burden of proof. Most people agree there is no need to provide proof that fairies and unicorns don't exist. If you think they do: show your evidence. The default position is to think they don't exist.
You’re mixing theism/atheism with gnosticism/agnosticism. They’re two separate axes.
> In practice, atheists are people who think they know there is no god.
This is generally labeled “gnostic atheism” or “strong atheism”, and only a teeny tiny fraction of people who identify as atheists take this view.
The way the vast majority of atheists use the term is as the complement set to theism. Theists believe in god(s). Atheists lack belief in gods. We don’t claim to know for certain, we just haven’t seen evidence that leads us to believe. (As you say, certainty level regarding any particular god varies depending on which one is in question.)
That just seems to me a terribly flawed statement. I'm agnostic. Maybe there is a god, maybe there isn't, who am I to know? It always seems like incredible hubris to me when someone claims not only to know for certain one way or the other, but project their baseless beliefs onto others.
I can't 100% prove that I'm an atheist, so I'm definitely agnostic. The brain structure is constantly evolving and it's unclear how that exactly works. What is a "belief" any way, and what does it matter for?
I used to think that I was an atheist, but I realized nothing can be proven presently in any way even if I have opinions, so I decided I have to be agnostic.
So e.g. I have hunches that there's no way there is a God that's in any way as religions might think it is, and I do have a hunch that we somehow happened from probably deterministic chain reactions, but it's a hunch, it's hard to call it a belief, or it's hard to think that I believe there is no God. It's more like a hunch or a thought. Because for all I know we could be some Alien's schoolwork project, but I don't think we are.
In any case as a human I feel like I have evolutionary drive to hold someone responsible, so again I demand whoever is behind all of that to give us those answers. But that is my evolutionary drive, not that I think there's actually someone like that. It's the conflict of evolutionary brain vs the logical thoughts brain.
These different parts in the brain can also agree to many different things, which can ultimately make me much more agreeable person, if I decide to pick one of those opinions.
But I can be very disagreeable too, because I think Big Five said it can lead to success?
>So e.g. I have hunches that there's no way there is a God that's in any way as religions might think it is, and I do have a hunch that we somehow happened from probably deterministic chain reactions, but it's a hunch, it's hard to call it a belief, or it's hard to think that I believe there is no God.
Saying that you know for certain that there is no god(s) is exactly the same as saying you know for sure that there is a god(s). Being agnostic is the realization that you can't be sure one way or the other. We are not omniscient and our reasoning abilities are not flawless. You might have your strong suspicions one way or the other about whether there is a god, but if you aren't certain (as many people are) I consider that as agnostic.
> I used to think that I was an atheist, but I realized nothing can be proven presently in any way even if I have opinions, so I decided I have to be agnostic.
As an atheist myself, I find your type of agnosticism to be overly generous to the religious theories. Do you also think that Russell's Teapot might exist or do you have a limit of unlikeliness that you draw the line at?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
Why didn't anyone tell Musk to put a teapot in space instead of a Tesla?
Atheists are people that don't bleieve there is a God. Agnostics are people who don't know they are atheists. -- Aron Ra
In practice, atheists are people who think they know there is no god. Agnostics are people who realize they don’t know much at all about anything related to the origins of things and realize they don’t want to hold unprovable dogmatic beliefs like the religious people do.
I considered myself an atheist for most of my life. As I got older and learned more, this shifted. These days I consider myself agnostic.
If atheism was defined as believing a specific kind of god (e.g. the “father god in the sky that created all things in 6 days”) does not exist, I’d still consider myself an atheist.
But my agnosticism comes from an acknowledgment of our fundamentally limited understanding of certain aspects of existence, and the implications of that specific lack of understanding.
It’s not as if I believe “well maybe the god of Abraham could be real after all but I don’t know” (it seems far more likely that if there’s a god, he/she/it/they are closer to being the stuff of existence than some standalone entity). It’s more that I withhold belief entirely and don’t make absolute claims that are philosophically untenable.
If we figure out how consciousness works or achieve breakthroughs in physics, I could imagine calling myself an atheist again. Until then, agnosticism seems like the most intellectually honest position.
> In practice, atheists are people who think they know there is no god.
Many atheists find a verdict of "not guilty" on the charge "that god exists". It's the equivalent of saying "I don't believe you." That's about it.
Saying "god does not exist" is a claim that itself has a burden of proof. Most people agree there is no need to provide proof that fairies and unicorns don't exist. If you think they do: show your evidence. The default position is to think they don't exist.
You’re mixing theism/atheism with gnosticism/agnosticism. They’re two separate axes.
> In practice, atheists are people who think they know there is no god.
This is generally labeled “gnostic atheism” or “strong atheism”, and only a teeny tiny fraction of people who identify as atheists take this view.
The way the vast majority of atheists use the term is as the complement set to theism. Theists believe in god(s). Atheists lack belief in gods. We don’t claim to know for certain, we just haven’t seen evidence that leads us to believe. (As you say, certainty level regarding any particular god varies depending on which one is in question.)
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/
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That just seems to me a terribly flawed statement. I'm agnostic. Maybe there is a god, maybe there isn't, who am I to know? It always seems like incredible hubris to me when someone claims not only to know for certain one way or the other, but project their baseless beliefs onto others.
I can't 100% prove that I'm an atheist, so I'm definitely agnostic. The brain structure is constantly evolving and it's unclear how that exactly works. What is a "belief" any way, and what does it matter for?