Comment by jampekka
8 months ago
> I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms)
PSA: 100-150 micrograms of LSD is a medium to strong trip. For beginners its good to start low, perhaps 75 micrograms or lower.
Edit: Also testing your reaction psychedelics in more controlled and calmer settings is highly recommended before doing in it raves or other public places. But also note that the effects may vary significantly even in the same person at different times and settings.
It’s also worth noting that there isn’t exactly strong quality control on the product. There is a good chance what is labelled 150 micrograms is actually closer to 50 micrograms. Or it could really be 150…
But that's true for any criminalized substance. It's not like the FDA or EFSA or so is going to do lab tests on, say, XTC and fine producers that lie on their ads or ingredient-list.
Though biological products like psilocybin (or weed etc) are harder to measure and control by producers, in strength than purely chemical products like LSD or MDMA. It's hard to trace what mother nature did exactly when producing this particular mushroom cap, but it could be possible to trace what the chemist did when producing this particular blot. If only it were legalized and we could have actual control, tracability, and prosecution of malpractice...
Fwiw at least xtc and coke can be legally tested in the Netherlands. https://www.drugs-test.nl/en/testlocations/
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With MDMA if you have 150 mg of powder, you have 150mg of powder, i.e. this is the upper bound on how much substance you will take (be it MDMA or not), i.e. there can't be MORE than 150 mg.
With LSD it's always a solution (either in paper or in liquid), so you can only trust the producer.
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You're not wrong, but the biggest confounding factor for LSD is that a 100ug dose comes embedded in 10000ug of blotter paper. Scales are useless for determining how much you're taking.
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Some countries (Germany, Holland) have (or had ~5 years ago when I was interested in this) legal analogues of LSD that are produced and sold in a fully regulated, safe, precise manner.
Well, cocaine and heroin are still used for certain medical applications, too, ain't they?
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Like what? What was a legal analogue 5 years ago?
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There is in the Netherlands. You can test it there [1].
Ah, I see someone else already mentioned it. I'll still keep this here for increased visibility. Drugs testing in NL is solid.
Source: trust me bro ;-)
Second source: go see for yourself! It's anonymous.
[1] https://www.drugs-test.nl/ (use google translate)
>100-150 micrograms of LSD is a medium to strong trip
Did you get that from a government "risk prevention" website? 100 micrograms is a base, standard dose; There's a reason that that is the most common amount to a piece of blotter paper.
A medium trip would be something like 220(also a common dose), and "strong" can go anywhere from what, 500 to 1000?(1000 and above being commonly referred to as "heroic dose" and fairly rarely taken)
I do agree that a beginner might want to try sub-100 micrograms, but you rub up against the lower border of real perceptible effects around 50.
A friend in IT (and sharp as a tack to this day) gave me empirical evidence that LSD's toxicity is nil. He used to hang around in a subculture that were not 'street users' eating blotters by any means, they had plenty of concentrate and had plenty liquid solution to pour.
It was a Birthday Party, and almost a dozen people had the idea to 'dose him' without knowledge of the others. After the party it was obvious this was an extended journey and those who had done it came clean to the others. The dosage was off the charts. They cared for him in shifts and the ordeal lasted almost three days. But he was fine after, apparently only some people experience flashbacks.
No human deaths have ever been attributed to LSD overdose. Atleast in one case some people got close and were hospitalized, having snorted a line of powder they though was cocaine but was actually pure crystalline LSD, which probably represented tens of thousands of standard doses at a minimum, and likely significantly more than that. LSD probably has one of if not the highest known spread beyween theuraputic dosage and dangerous over dosage. It was once considered the safest drug anyone could get because there was almost nothing else that it could be adultered with effectively because blotter paper and single liquid drops can hold such little of any other drug.
These days there are other drugs that are effective in such small doses, but are not common to encounter unless you specifically look for them and are usually significantly more expensive than LSD to start with.
With medium trip I mean a base standard dose. You may mean something else with a "trip" or "medium". I'm just referring to one usage setting.
Also glorifying large doses especially when discussing first times in a forum with inexperienced audience is rather stupid. Too large doses for beginners is a recipe for unpleasant experiences and subsequent negativity about drugs in general.
I wasn't trying to glorify, only to more accurately reflect the actual "levels" according to my experience. Calling what is essentially the lowest end "medium" is confusing.
>discussing first times in a forum with inexperienced audience
This is HN, not Club Penguin. We don't have to baby our fellow users. They are fully able to make choices based on their own risk profile/tolerance without needing to be misled into being inappropiately cautious. Making such a big fuss about it has as much of a chance of negatively affecting peoples' experience by making them anxious.
counterpoint: you only get your first time, one time.
Counter counter point: if you mess up your first time, it's likely you'll never be able to enjoy the experience.
Continuation the counter points: most traditional uses, guided by shamans or priests use heavy doses.
I had expiremented with moderate/recomended doses of lsd and psilocybin before participating in an auahuasca retreat... and the doses were shocking.
This was a relatively tame centre in western Europe that had trained psych nurses in attendance. Still, the Shaman handed out monster doses... and offered a second one a couple of hours in... and again the following day.
Many traditional practices conceive of "levels" corresponding to doses, and the lower levels are not the ones associated with transformative spiritual experience.
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> Counter counter point: if you mess up your first time, it's likely you'll never be able to enjoy the experience.
That's what drug prohibitionists would love to happen, so they should encourage such a "wrong" experiment instead of prosecuting it. :-)
Might be true for some, but I had a long series of bad experiences when I was a teenager (tension and paranoia), was convinced that it wasn't for me, and only in my 30s I started having very profound and positive experiences. Now I only experiment alone, in a non-distracted, aware, self-reflective manner, as if it were a meditation aide.
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Counter counter counter point: That's a good outcome.
In my experience, first times with drugs like MDMA are very important just because the tolerance builds up basically forever. First time with LSD however... Better safe than sorry. My first time wasn't that impressive, but it was safe and didn't involve any negative emotions. I've had many other times since, much more impressive and important.
Drugs' build up and tolerance varies wildly between the drugs, the person and the experience one seeks.
Chemically and physically, LSD for example is gone in a few days and certainly weeks. But taking two days in a row needs "insane" amounts to get you the same (physical, chemical) effect. MDMA is almost entirely gone in months, after which a normal dose will get the same (physical, chemical) effect. Good documentation with even calculators for this can be found online (be aware that it may not be allowed to even visit such sites in some countries!)
I deliberately emphasis the "physical and chemical" because the experience itself may be something you get used to. First time MDMA is wildly different from any time thereafter for many people. For many this is even stronger with LSD or Psilocybin. Many people report that the (first) experience opened up their mind and being profoundly and lasting. The more one gets used to the feeling the more this feeling itself becomes routine.
The intense love and euphoria from e.g. MDMA may be the same on an objective level, after letting the chemicals disappear over months, so technically one can achieve this level a few times a year. But the feeling itself is something one could get "used to" and "become bored by". Similar to how experiencing a rave sober for decades, or even how after decades of traveling it could get boring and a routine.
My point is: indeed first times are important. Even if the textbooks say that tolerance is gone after X time.
Yes. And I wish I would have started with 75 microgram.
Imo not true for psychodelics
You just open the door for many more first times to come
Agree! Go into it with great preparation — be sure to read the manual closely.
Less is more
First time is rarely especially good. This applies to more or less all substances.
That's... not true, lol. That can be true, especially for psychedelics, but that's absolutely not true of other drugs.
MDMA comes to mind. I've also heard (though not tried, nor will I) the harder narcotics such as heroine and meth are almost never as good as the first time.
The first time being the best time is often exactly why people become addicts.
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Wat? Maybe my bubble is different, but in my surroundings and experience, the exact opposite is true.
Now, an important factor here is that a first time often comes with anxiety, insecurity, and even fear. With many substances these feelings get amplified so that makes the entire experience be mediocre or even bad. Especially for that, I think it's very important to experience this in a safe, loving, caring and depending on the type taken, controllable, silent, busy, energetic, dark, light etc environment.