Comment by Nursie
8 months ago
> I'll think really hard about philosophy when on drugs, you go do your thing ;)
Yeah sounds great. It's the imputation that it's the only way that got my back up. I don't imagine 5% of people who've taken and enjoyed LSD have taken the time to understand the basics of existentialism or done "the required work to understand yourself, your circumstances, stand on the shoulder of giants..." and all that guff.
And we still had an absolute blast.
> Isn't that smuggling in the assumption that there is an essential separation of the self and the rest of the world?
There is, it's called your body and other humans generally recognise yours as distinct from themselves and from other objects.
> And what if everything is self? Does it make any difference?
Acid-like thinking detected.
> What is the correct sense of the profound and who is going to be the gatekeepers of the profound?
Well, given the nature of the 'profound' realisations people on acid tend to have, I think "a modicum of common sense" would suffice.
That fascinating plastic lemonade bottle you're contemplating so hard probably isn't going to have much impact on space travel, no. Or on a larger scale, many of the proclamations that LSD will fundamentally change society when people 'realise' one thing or another that they 'learned' while under the influence turn out to be hopelessly naive - see the various late-60s to early 70s hippie communes in the US that generally fell into disarray and outright collapse when it turns out optimism and LSD weren't going to solve everything and someone still has to do the dishes eventually.
> I have all my notes and they still make a lot of sense to me so I don't think this argument hold by experience.
Your experience is certainly a data point, I would be surprised if this is as widespread as "I wrote it down and now realise it's all nonsense, it felt so meaningful at the time", but I don't imagine anyone's done a study.
> Is there a meaning to life to be found?
That's an interesting question, but looking for it in psychedelic experience seems to me a path that could lead to all sorts of odd places, mostly concerned with weird echoes of your own mind.
> Ah and thanks for proving my point about the necessity of philosophy.
The necessity of philosophy to an internet argument is one thing. Its necessity to a fulfilling life is arguable, given so much of it is navel-gazing bollocks, and the necessity of deeply studying philiosophical principles before dropping acid even less clear.
You do you, but your original post was full of pretty arrogant assertions about how everyone else should do them. I agree, I shot back with some of the same.
Thanks for the thought out response, I think I can let my guard down. We were both arrogant and there's nothing wrong with it.
I'm coming from a personal point. I don't care about space travel or these enormous projects. I'm a simple guy with simple needs, and I like people and serving people. I am grateful there are people out there like you that spend time on this so I can focus on alienating myself with things I find interesting, like drawing and philosophy of consciousness.
It's just that not everything has to be a data point or a general abstraction on a larger scale. You can meet people in their own grounds so you can find common ground without imposing yourself.
And about drugs, I reflected on what you said and I think I could have expressed myself better, because I don't actually think there's a universal imposition of having to learn philosophy to take drugs, even though I agree with Simone Weil when she says philosophy is the required work so we can become vessels of God (hope this doesn't trigger your acid-like thinking detector). I only think drugs are tools we have the option to use and have the control over how we are going to direct them.
For my part I probably could benefit from studying philosophy and contemplating inner life a little more. It’s also fair to say I’m disillusioned with psychedelics - not that I don’t think they’re pretty amazing, but that time in my life has passed and I’ve come to view them as maybe overhyped.
I find my contentment and meaning in digging and planting these days, managing trees and general manual labour surrounded by birdsong and small animals. And in my relationships with my partner and my friends.
In many ways this is as irrational as any other path :)
Oh I'm doing a similar movement. I'm a city boy and I'm trying to find a nice piece of land to buy in the countryside so I can plant stuff and raise chickens
> time in my life has passed and I’ve come to view them as maybe overhyped
It's overhyped for sure! But everything nowadays is overhyped. People treat technology as a panacea where it's just an extension of ourselves. If the self isn't balanced, nothing will be fulfilling (the meanings of a balanced self and a fulfilling experience I'm leaving intentionally open, because it varies from person to person).