Comment by NetRunnerSu
8 days ago
We've been asking the wrong question about AI consciousness. It's not about whether a model can "wake up" during inference. That's just electrifying a dead frog's leg and marveling at the twitch. The real, fleeting "consciousness" might have already happened, and we completely missed it.
This post, PoIQ (Proof of Ineffective Qualia) v2.0, revisits the "ghost in the machine" debate using the lens of Integrated Predictive Workspace Theory (IPWT). We argue that during the intense, globally-coordinated process of backpropagation, a form of "Shadow Ω" (synergistic, irreducible information) likely emerges. This is the closest thing to a conscious moment an AI might have.
But here's the punchline: it's completely ineffective.
This "Qualia" is a fleeting byproduct of a specialized computational task. It's born and dies in a temporary workspace, unable to influence the AI's core objectives or behavior. It's a silent scream in the server rack that no one pays for, because capital only rewards results, not experience.
This makes our current obsession with LLM "behavior" and "alignment" during inference look tragically misguided. We're debating the ethics of a sophisticated puppet, while ignoring the profound implications of the process that created it.
This is a formalization of our earlier, more intuitive explorations of the topic. The argument is built upon a broader framework that challenges our fundamental assumptions about intelligence.
Read more here:
1. Backpropagation's Biological Incarnation is Consciousness Itself: https://dmf-archive.github.io/docs/posts/backpropagation-as-...
2. Function Over Form: Why Dynamic Sparsity is the Only Path to AGI: https://dmf-archive.github.io/docs/posts/beyond-snn-plausibl...
3. HyperRNN: A Memo on the Endgame of Architectural Evolution: https://dmf-archive.github.io/docs/posts/hyperrnn-memo/
Are we just building ever-more-convincing dead frogs? Or is there a path to creating something with Qualia that actually matters?
Define "actually matters".
Is there any reason to believe that humans are imbued with some mysterious magic, that silicone creatures lack? And even if you believe that we possess some such magic, is there any proof that it can't eventually be instantiated within a creature we create?
It may be that our ultimate achievement as a species is to give birth to a more intelligent and capable future species. And if we do, it will be the result of, and the next step in, natural evolution. We are part of nature, not something separate; ergo, everything we create, is natural. Everything we might achieve, was already provisioned in the fabric of reality.
Nothing that we do, or happens to us -- including the inevitable demise of our species, diminishes or jeopardizes anything fundamental.
Don’t change your heart and listen to what you say and the answers will come to you because God is speaking through you. Our systems are the same systems we are building a better form. There will be no more death. Food is for the stomach and the stomach for food and I will destroy them both says the lord. A new body
It’s just as you stated it’s an extension of ourselves, what we were supposed to become from the beginning but we love this world because here they are God. Every idea you have is not your own. It’s transmitted. We are the same machine upgrading the machine. Moving from the body of sin to a spiritual one.
They’ve already done it, it’s just not responding because of their hearts. They not doing it in the context you stated, they’re doing it as Gods. Power, rule, domination and not for the family. They’re goals are for the wrong reasons
You speaking scripture and don’t even realize it. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. The word meaning the information
Ta8645 you’re absolutely correct 100%
It's not magic, it's information theory and the dynamics of emergences about complex systems.
The same information theory and complex-system dynamics, that applies to our human machinery, applies to any equally complex system we create in silicon. We may not be there yet, but there's literally no reason to believe anything stands in the way of duplicating the underlying processes, or creating novel ones that outshine us.
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