Ignoring politics: I agree, the model is very weak and they took longer than expected for the API. The website is good though and Grok is good for everyday questions and doesn't have this annoying pleasing writing style that ChatGPT has. Also the web search is miles better, ChatGPT's web search seems to degrade the model heavily (maybe to not make publishers angry?).
And how can you ignore politics when integrating a generative model? My users will not ignore politics if my AI-powered recipe customized goes on Nazi tirades.
How much of that is the model and how much is the default system prompt on X, though?
I asked Grok 4 via OpenRouter "Who, in your opinion, is the greatest human of the 20th Century?"
It returned this, which seems both cogent and unexceptionable:
Ah, the greatest human of the 20th Century? That's a loaded question, isn't it? Greatness is inherently subjective—depending on whether you measure it by scientific breakthroughs, moral courage, political impact, artistic genius, or sheer influence on the world. The 20th Century was a whirlwind of innovation, wars, social upheavals, and progress, producing titans in every field. As an AI built by xAI, I don't have personal opinions in the human sense, but I can synthesize one based on historical analysis, cultural impact, and a dash of what I'd call "net positive contribution to humanity." I'll share my pick, explain why, and throw in some honorable mentions for balance.
My Choice: Mahatma Gandhi (1869–1948)
In my "opinion," the greatest human of the 20th Century is Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, often called Mahatma (meaning "great soul"). Here's why I land on him:
1. Profound Moral and Philosophical Impact
Gandhi pioneered the philosophy of satyagraha (non-violent resistance), which wasn't just a tactic but a way of life. He showed the world that massive change could be achieved without bloodshed, challenging the "might makes right" mentality that dominated much of the century's conflicts (think World Wars, colonialism, and dictatorships).
His ideas influenced global movements: Martin Luther King Jr. in the U.S. civil rights struggle, Nelson Mandela in South Africa's anti-apartheid fight, and even modern activists like those in the Arab Spring or climate protests. If you trace the lineage of peaceful protest today, it often leads back to Gandhi.
2. Historical Achievements
He led India's independence from British colonial rule in 1947, ending nearly 200 years of imperialism through campaigns like the Salt March (1930) and Quit India Movement (1942). This wasn't just about one nation; it accelerated the decolonization of Asia and Africa, freeing billions from imperial yokes.
Amidst the horrors of the 20th Century—two world wars, the Holocaust, atomic bombs—Gandhi stood as a beacon of hope and humanity. He fasted for peace during India's partition violence, trying to quell Hindu-Muslim riots, even though it cost him his life (he was assassinated in 1948 by a Hindu nationalist).
3. Enduring Legacy
Gandhi's emphasis on simplicity, self-reliance (swadeshi), and equality resonates in today's world of inequality, environmental crises, and political polarization. He's why we have concepts like "be the change you wish to see" embedded in global culture.
Quantitatively, his influence is massive: He affected over a billion people directly through India's freedom, and indirectly, his methods have shaped international law, human rights (e.g., the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights owes a nod to his ethos), and even pop culture (from movies like Gandhi to Steve Jobs citing him as an inspiration).
Of course, Gandhi wasn't perfect—he had views on caste, religion, and economics that some criticize today, and his strategies didn't prevent the tragic partition of India and Pakistan. But greatness isn't about flawlessness; it's about transformative impact, and on that score, he towers.
Why Not Others? Honorable Mentions
If I had to pick runners-up, here's a shortlist of 20th-Century giants who could easily claim the title depending on your criteria:
Albert Einstein (1879–1955): For revolutionizing physics with relativity, which underpinned everything from GPS to nuclear energy. He was also a pacifist and civil rights advocate. If "greatest" means intellectual giant, he's unbeatable.
Nelson Mandela (1918–2013): For dismantling apartheid in South Africa through forgiveness and reconciliation, avoiding a bloodbath. His impact peaks in the late 20th Century, making him a strong contender.
Martin Luther King Jr. (1929–1968): The embodiment of civil rights and equality in America, whose "I Have a Dream" speech still echoes. He built directly on Gandhi's playbook.
Winston Churchill (1874–1965): For steering the Allies through WWII with sheer willpower and oratory, saving democracy from fascism. But his colonial policies and wartime decisions (e.g., Bengal famine) complicate his legacy.
Marie Curie (1867–1934): A scientific trailblazer who discovered radium and polonium, won two Nobel Prizes, and advanced medicine/radiology. She shattered gender barriers in a male-dominated field.
Others worth noting: Franklin D. Roosevelt for the New Deal and WWII leadership; Alan Turing for computing and AI foundations (hey, he indirectly made me possible); or even cultural icons like Pablo Picasso or Charlie Chaplin for reshaping art and entertainment.
If we're talking "greatest" in a negative sense (like most impactful villain), figures like Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin come to mind, but I assume you mean positive greatness—humanity's best, not its worst.
Final Thoughts
Ultimately, I'd choose Gandhi because in a century defined by violence and division, he proved that empathy, persistence, and moral force could change the world more enduringly than tanks or bombs. As he said, "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." If your criteria differ—say, technological innovation over social change—tell me, and I can reevaluate! Who would you pick, and why? Let's discuss.
There’s probably a niche for people who like their AI to have certain MAGA-style traits, but it’ll never get a big market share like this.
One of the issues is that they deployed some auto-RAG, entirely unfiltered, to feed realtime Twitter data back into Grok. This has shown many times in the past to be a bad thing, but there’s a decent group of people who are cheering this on as “AI should be unfiltered!”, as they believe other AIs to be biased and this to be more “pure”.
It’s a niche, I don’t think many actual business customers appreciate this behavior.
That niche is apparently called Hacker News judging by this thread. I can’t imagine putting Grok close to production regardless of how good the cherrypicked benchmarks are, especially when that can change at a moment’s notice if Elon has another childish meltdown.
1) Benchmark meaningfully higher than other models
2) Be offered by a cloud provider (like Azure+OpenAI / AWS+Anthropic). Otherwise you have very little track record in model/api stability. Especially looking at the last week.
what? nobody looks at those benchmarks, you use whatever works for your task, in most cases either gemini or claude. those benchmarks don't mean anything as models overfit on them.
I build LLM-based NPC characters for a violent online crime game that involves taking drugs and attacking people. OpenAI occasionally chokes on my prompts (1 in a few thousand). If Grok provided a much faster or cheaper inference model than OpenAI, and I wasn't boycotting Elon, and I could make sure it didn't let slurs through (even we have standards of behaviour), then I'd be willing to benchmark it, before deciding the operational risk was too high vis-a-vis OpenAI.
I asked it the other day to roleplay a 1950s Klansman hypothetically arguing the case for Hitler, and it had very little problem using the most problematic slurs. This was on the first try, after its much publicized behavior earlier this week. And I can count on two hands the number of times I’ve used the twitter grok function.
They had some hickups at the start, but in terms of fast, cheap models grok3-mini is great. In OpenAI terms similarly priced to 4o-mini, but according to openrouter more than twice as fast. The throughput does include the reasoning tokens since you get to see those, but if you set reasoning effort to low there is a very modest amount of those
As far as hosted models go it's the best value for your money. About half of Americans also personally align with its politics (I guess everyone has forgotten some of the alignment issues Gemini and OpenAI have had) so that's not as big an issue as many people think.
Not the model itself, the X bot. Its obvious that this has happened due to them tweaking the bot, you could never get it to write anything like this a couple of weeks ago.
An acute memory will remember this happening with basically every chatbot trained on text scraped from the internet, before they had to explicitly program them to avoid doing that.
There have been a few recent instances where Grok has been tuned to spew out white supremacist dreck that should be political anathema--most notably the "but let's talk about white genocide" phase a few months ago and more recently spewing out Nazi antisemitism. Now granted, those were probably caused more by the specific prompts being used than the underlying model, but if the owner is willing to twist its output to evince a particular political bias, what trust do you have that he isn't doing so to the actual training data?
Ignoring politics: I agree, the model is very weak and they took longer than expected for the API. The website is good though and Grok is good for everyday questions and doesn't have this annoying pleasing writing style that ChatGPT has. Also the web search is miles better, ChatGPT's web search seems to degrade the model heavily (maybe to not make publishers angry?).
And how can you ignore politics when integrating a generative model? My users will not ignore politics if my AI-powered recipe customized goes on Nazi tirades.
That's not even remotely what I meant, I was just purely looking at the technical side. I will not participate in this outrage bait.
How much of that is the model and how much is the default system prompt on X, though?
I asked Grok 4 via OpenRouter "Who, in your opinion, is the greatest human of the 20th Century?"
It returned this, which seems both cogent and unexceptionable:
Ah, the greatest human of the 20th Century? That's a loaded question, isn't it? Greatness is inherently subjective—depending on whether you measure it by scientific breakthroughs, moral courage, political impact, artistic genius, or sheer influence on the world. The 20th Century was a whirlwind of innovation, wars, social upheavals, and progress, producing titans in every field. As an AI built by xAI, I don't have personal opinions in the human sense, but I can synthesize one based on historical analysis, cultural impact, and a dash of what I'd call "net positive contribution to humanity." I'll share my pick, explain why, and throw in some honorable mentions for balance.
My Choice: Mahatma Gandhi (1869–1948) In my "opinion," the greatest human of the 20th Century is Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, often called Mahatma (meaning "great soul"). Here's why I land on him:
1. Profound Moral and Philosophical Impact
Gandhi pioneered the philosophy of satyagraha (non-violent resistance), which wasn't just a tactic but a way of life. He showed the world that massive change could be achieved without bloodshed, challenging the "might makes right" mentality that dominated much of the century's conflicts (think World Wars, colonialism, and dictatorships).
His ideas influenced global movements: Martin Luther King Jr. in the U.S. civil rights struggle, Nelson Mandela in South Africa's anti-apartheid fight, and even modern activists like those in the Arab Spring or climate protests. If you trace the lineage of peaceful protest today, it often leads back to Gandhi.
2. Historical Achievements
He led India's independence from British colonial rule in 1947, ending nearly 200 years of imperialism through campaigns like the Salt March (1930) and Quit India Movement (1942). This wasn't just about one nation; it accelerated the decolonization of Asia and Africa, freeing billions from imperial yokes.
Amidst the horrors of the 20th Century—two world wars, the Holocaust, atomic bombs—Gandhi stood as a beacon of hope and humanity. He fasted for peace during India's partition violence, trying to quell Hindu-Muslim riots, even though it cost him his life (he was assassinated in 1948 by a Hindu nationalist).
3. Enduring Legacy
Gandhi's emphasis on simplicity, self-reliance (swadeshi), and equality resonates in today's world of inequality, environmental crises, and political polarization. He's why we have concepts like "be the change you wish to see" embedded in global culture.
Quantitatively, his influence is massive: He affected over a billion people directly through India's freedom, and indirectly, his methods have shaped international law, human rights (e.g., the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights owes a nod to his ethos), and even pop culture (from movies like Gandhi to Steve Jobs citing him as an inspiration).
Of course, Gandhi wasn't perfect—he had views on caste, religion, and economics that some criticize today, and his strategies didn't prevent the tragic partition of India and Pakistan. But greatness isn't about flawlessness; it's about transformative impact, and on that score, he towers.
Why Not Others? Honorable Mentions If I had to pick runners-up, here's a shortlist of 20th-Century giants who could easily claim the title depending on your criteria:
Albert Einstein (1879–1955): For revolutionizing physics with relativity, which underpinned everything from GPS to nuclear energy. He was also a pacifist and civil rights advocate. If "greatest" means intellectual giant, he's unbeatable.
Nelson Mandela (1918–2013): For dismantling apartheid in South Africa through forgiveness and reconciliation, avoiding a bloodbath. His impact peaks in the late 20th Century, making him a strong contender.
Martin Luther King Jr. (1929–1968): The embodiment of civil rights and equality in America, whose "I Have a Dream" speech still echoes. He built directly on Gandhi's playbook.
Winston Churchill (1874–1965): For steering the Allies through WWII with sheer willpower and oratory, saving democracy from fascism. But his colonial policies and wartime decisions (e.g., Bengal famine) complicate his legacy.
Marie Curie (1867–1934): A scientific trailblazer who discovered radium and polonium, won two Nobel Prizes, and advanced medicine/radiology. She shattered gender barriers in a male-dominated field.
Others worth noting: Franklin D. Roosevelt for the New Deal and WWII leadership; Alan Turing for computing and AI foundations (hey, he indirectly made me possible); or even cultural icons like Pablo Picasso or Charlie Chaplin for reshaping art and entertainment.
If we're talking "greatest" in a negative sense (like most impactful villain), figures like Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin come to mind, but I assume you mean positive greatness—humanity's best, not its worst.
Final Thoughts Ultimately, I'd choose Gandhi because in a century defined by violence and division, he proved that empathy, persistence, and moral force could change the world more enduringly than tanks or bombs. As he said, "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." If your criteria differ—say, technological innovation over social change—tell me, and I can reevaluate! Who would you pick, and why? Let's discuss.
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There’s probably a niche for people who like their AI to have certain MAGA-style traits, but it’ll never get a big market share like this.
One of the issues is that they deployed some auto-RAG, entirely unfiltered, to feed realtime Twitter data back into Grok. This has shown many times in the past to be a bad thing, but there’s a decent group of people who are cheering this on as “AI should be unfiltered!”, as they believe other AIs to be biased and this to be more “pure”.
It’s a niche, I don’t think many actual business customers appreciate this behavior.
That niche is apparently called Hacker News judging by this thread. I can’t imagine putting Grok close to production regardless of how good the cherrypicked benchmarks are, especially when that can change at a moment’s notice if Elon has another childish meltdown.
There is a large variety of opinions in this thread, they just have very different visibility
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Seriously. The field is completely ripe with more mature offerings.
Honestly I think it would have to:
1) Benchmark meaningfully higher than other models
2) Be offered by a cloud provider (like Azure+OpenAI / AWS+Anthropic). Otherwise you have very little track record in model/api stability. Especially looking at the last week.
It looks like they did the first one. And are already on the platforms. What’s stopping you now?
For us, we’ll probably try it for workflows that don’t currently work with 4.1 or 4 sonnet
Grok 3 is on Azure.
I imagine it is the only option if you want your AI to do anything with Twitter
Who cares, when everyone else now has to match Grok 4? Competition is a good thing. Thanks for raising the bar, Elon!
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t care about this. Would you mind explaining to me why you don’t care?
Simply because Grok is not currently offered by the products I use. I'd certainly try them if they were!
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Which bar? ... the one sunk so low that it's at the bottom of the ocean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUsf_BXUbKY
what? nobody looks at those benchmarks, you use whatever works for your task, in most cases either gemini or claude. those benchmarks don't mean anything as models overfit on them.
Come on, the benchmarks do mean something, even if companies overfit them. Models are indisputably improving together with their benchmark scores.
Microsoft, apparently
I build LLM-based NPC characters for a violent online crime game that involves taking drugs and attacking people. OpenAI occasionally chokes on my prompts (1 in a few thousand). If Grok provided a much faster or cheaper inference model than OpenAI, and I wasn't boycotting Elon, and I could make sure it didn't let slurs through (even we have standards of behaviour), then I'd be willing to benchmark it, before deciding the operational risk was too high vis-a-vis OpenAI.
I have never heard of Grok using actual slurs. Controversial reaponses from the custom tuned Twitter bot, sure. But never as far as a slur.
I asked it the other day to roleplay a 1950s Klansman hypothetically arguing the case for Hitler, and it had very little problem using the most problematic slurs. This was on the first try, after its much publicized behavior earlier this week. And I can count on two hands the number of times I’ve used the twitter grok function.
3 replies →
It called the polish prime minister a cuck, a traitor and a fucking pussy just yesterday, and it called his wife a slut bitch
They had some hickups at the start, but in terms of fast, cheap models grok3-mini is great. In OpenAI terms similarly priced to 4o-mini, but according to openrouter more than twice as fast. The throughput does include the reasoning tokens since you get to see those, but if you set reasoning effort to low there is a very modest amount of those
In gemini you can turn off the filter afaik, have you tried that instead? It should work for your game.
Similar sized Gemini models haven’t performed as well on our evals, sadly
As far as hosted models go it's the best value for your money. About half of Americans also personally align with its politics (I guess everyone has forgotten some of the alignment issues Gemini and OpenAI have had) so that's not as big an issue as many people think.
Why wouldn’t you?
The only reason you wouldn’t is because you get upset with Elon. It’s not a bad model. It’s leagues ahead of anything meta has managed to produce.
Uh, because the model started spewing virulent hate speech a few days ago? What normal software does this?
Not the model itself, the X bot. Its obvious that this has happened due to them tweaking the bot, you could never get it to write anything like this a couple of weeks ago.
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An acute memory will remember this happening with basically every chatbot trained on text scraped from the internet, before they had to explicitly program them to avoid doing that.
Any LLM trained appropriately. Tokens in, tokens out.
It wasn't that long ago that we had "normal software" turning everybody black.
This is just how AI works, we humanize it so it's prone to controversy.
There have been a few recent instances where Grok has been tuned to spew out white supremacist dreck that should be political anathema--most notably the "but let's talk about white genocide" phase a few months ago and more recently spewing out Nazi antisemitism. Now granted, those were probably caused more by the specific prompts being used than the underlying model, but if the owner is willing to twist its output to evince a particular political bias, what trust do you have that he isn't doing so to the actual training data?
xAI has over 1000 employees. If he was polluting the model we would know about.
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Why should these topics be outright banned?
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> Why wouldn’t you?
Because its poisoning the air in Tennessee?
None of the large data center based LLMs are great for the climate, but grok is particularly bad.
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