Comment by jamestimmins
3 days ago
I like it from the standpoint of kids not being afraid of power tools. Plenty of adults would never do woodworking because the tools seem too scary. Teaching kids that power tools don't need to be scary as long as they're used safely is a worthwhile output on its own IMO.
The best advice I ever got re: power tools from an old shop teacher was that before throwing the switch and powering up a machine, to count to 10 on one's fingers under one's breath while reviewing every aspect of the planned operation, and all the forces involved, reminding oneself that one wants to be able to repeat the count in the same way after the switch is turned off.
That said, I think it's best to maintain a healthy respect for, and even to a reasonable degree to be afraid of the machines and the forces which they can exert.
"Teaching kids that power tools don't need to be scary as long as they're used safely is a worthwhile output on its own IMO."
True but real safety first thinking is not something that a purchasing decision will fix.
I have a scar on one of my fingers that was caused by a broken broom! How bloody naff is that but it bled like buggery and a 1" flap of finger flapped for a while and needed stitches at A&E (for Americans - that's where you pop in and a few hours later pop out, all patched up without a credit card being involved).
I wasn't wearing gloves. I am a first aider, H&S rep for my company (my company - I care about my troops) and so on. I was sweeping my drive with a broom with a hollow metal tube handle and it partially snapped and hinged and caught my finger and partially sliced a lump. Oh and I am the fire officer and even my house has a multi page fire plan.
I own a plethora of torture devices - a table saw, multiple chain saws, chisels and the rest. I have skied for four decades and drive a car/van/lorry.
Safety first thinking doesn't mean that you escape all of life's efforts to kill you but you do get a better chance of avoiding damage.
A power tool that promises safety might be missplaced. However, this one does not missrepresent itself. It does what it does and it does it well.
For me, I will be digging out the hand cranked jigsaw when I show the grand kids how to chop off their fingers: A fret saw. However that thing looks like a great introduction to dealing with power tools.
> the tools seem too scary
They are too scary.
Consider table saws. SawStop built its brand on not cutting fingers off, which is scary enough. But it turns out that kickback causes a lot more injuries and that's not really addressed well by any tools.
https://www.sawstop.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulvP8Vv9SrE
There ought to be a market for MEs to design power tools that are safer for consumers. So where is the obviously-named "KickStop" table saw? Maybe the decline in the middle class makes that market too small to consider such improvements.
Safe is a function of training and guards and competence when using a tool and above all an awareness of the forces involved and how to position oneself so that should something go wrong, one will not be in the line of movement of potential projectiles. This means that the first thing one must ask oneself when walking up to a tool is, "Am I well-rested, and sufficiently clear-headed and well-versed in this operation that I will be able to focus on using this tool safely?"
Sawstop wouldn't have a business model if tablesaw accidents were tried by a jury of shop teachers whose awareness of this is brought into focus by a career of explaining how to safely use power tools (see my post elsethread).
Everyone has an individual level of random line noise.
There's a whole field of human factors engineering that seems to agree "just being careful" is not a reasonable strategy by itself.
I have one brain, and the world contains multiple objects, which exist at the same time and don't take turns in an orderly fashion.
There will always be something I'm not consciously focusing on, and there is large individual variance in how well people can do things automatically.
1 reply →
> So where is the obviously-named "KickStop" table saw?
It's called a riving knife?
The saw stop creator patented and tried to license his tech (not make a saw,) the major manufacturers didn't want to pay the license fees.
I sort of get it, for actual job sites using dimensional lumber you're going to have the saw in bypass the entire time because the wood is wet, making the safety moot so the market is there for hobbyists but not pros.
First thing the "pros" do is remove the guards. I've never seen a guard on a jointer or a shaper at a pro shop. The products fit the demand in the market.
I'm a pro. I'll agree about guards on a table saw. The ones we get in the USA are without exception crap. I haven't used a Wadkin or European style saw. I can only assume that as much as they must cost to make, there's some merit to them. A riving knife is a really nice feature and I wholeheartedly recommend leaving it in.
Shapers are a mixed bag. If you're running enough straight stock making moldings, you've probably got enough featherboards and/or hold downs if not a power feeder set up that you'd really have to try to get hurt. For smaller jobs or curves work, it's a tossup, but yeah, a lot of it gets done without a guard.
Jointers I'm going to disagree with you: I pretty much refuse to run without a guard. Except for rabbeting, I haven't found a good reason to do so. I have done so in other shops, usually on machines so old that the guard was lost 50 years ago and is irreplaceable. Generally though, if I don't see a guard on a jointer in a shop, I'm pretty wary about what else might be being treated a bit too casually. A guard on a jointer is an easy win with very little downside.
7 replies →
My recent Dewalt table saw purchase with a blade guard, riving knife, and anti-kickback. So they've gotten better at least.
I feel like you want to teach that they are dangerous and can be used safely when careful. A woodworker I know almost cut their finger clean off despite having years of experience.
A British magician called Paul Daniels managed to slice some fingers on a table saw. He had been making his own tricks gear for decades.
Safety thinking can slip - you only have to cock up once when you are pushing an amorphous mass into a blade spinning at say 3000 rpm and lose concentration.
Table saws, band saws etc and the like are dreadful.
My wife manages to make a simple drill/driver somewhat dangerous to the point that I have to sometimes fake a reason why husband should take over (yes I am very careful - she's generally sharper than the tool in question!)
The first step to respecting power tools or firearms is fearing what they can do when mishandled.
You don't need power tools for most of woodworking anyway. That's a ridiculous excuse to avoid it. I've built furniture and framed buildings almost entirely with hand tools.
I started with power tools. Moved to hand tools for a year or so when I moved houses and still had my table saw, etc. in storage.
Now that I my power tools are back in the garage — I can't quit the power tools — right back relying on them. I just couldn't plane quite as nice as my joiner (and certainly not in one pass). And sharpening the hand tools...
I earnestly want to do more hand-tool woodworking. I keep thinking that, as I get older, I'll eventually full in on hand tools. But at 61 years old ... not yet.
Quite right until you discover a router ...
Router is a very dangerous tool, and it will steal from you the joy of creating profiles by hand with moulding planes, one of the most rewarding things in woodworking. This book is a great guide: https://lostartpress.com/products/mouldings-in-practice?srsl... You can get by quite well with a rabbit plane and 3/8" hollow + round and 5/8" hollow + round places. I prefer the HNT Gordon Planes, beautiful hand made planes from australia: https://www.heartwoodtools.com/hntgordon/hollow-and-round-pl...
4 replies →
You should maintain a healthy fear of power tools. They're like big cats. You can be familiar, but never get too comfortable.
> I like it from the standpoint of kids not being afraid of power tools.
I'm personally cultivating my fear for power tools. I consciously work on it so I wouldn't get used to them and wouldn't stop being afraid. Fear makes me more attentive, more careful, it forces me to think first and to do next. To stop myself when things go not as planned and think again. It is almost impossible to distract me while I'm cutting wood or whatever I'm doing with a power tool. I'm afraid of the tool, I wouldn't let my attention to switch from it while it is powered.
It is funny, that psychologists believe that fears is a bad thing that must be eliminated. At least all I've talked about fears believed in that. But fears are good, they come with a danger detector included, and they are hard to ignore.
> Teaching kids that power tools don't need to be scary as long as they're used safely is a worthwhile output on its own IMO.
I believe, that either "to use safely" or "not scary". There is no middle ground. Though it maybe just my own way to the safety, maybe others know other ways.
> Plenty of adults would never do woodworking because the tools seem too scary.
The fears that stop you from doing are probably bad, but from the other hand, before using power tools you'd better learn how to do it safely. I learned all of them from experienced people, who demonstrated me how to do it properly, watched me and explained me what I'm doing wrong. So, maybe, they are right.
> I'm personally cultivating my fear for power tools.
I get what you're saying, but to get there you have to willfully conflate an irrational fear of unknown consequences with a rational fear of known consequences. The barrier for many adults to power-tool use is the former, which blocks them from acquiring the latter.
> The barrier for many adults to power-tool use is the former, which blocks them from acquiring the latter.
I don't know such people, and I don't know any research of the motivation of such people. But I can suggest an alternate hypothesis explaining their behavior. They just don't want to deal with power tools, have no interest in acquiring the skills, and they use their fear to explain their unwillingness causally.
A lot of people didn't even try to learn how to use musical instruments, and oftentimes they explain it by their tone deafness. But a good ear is not something people are born with, it is a result of training. Genes probably play their role, but for the most people it all boils down to practice. They didn't practiced, they cannot know about how good their ears are, but they use tone deafness as an excuse. What is really happening, they are not interested enough, or lazy, or have not enough time, but they use their inability to sing karaoke perfectly as a sign of tone deafness and as an excuse to not learning how to play music.
Tone deafness as an excuse is better than others, because it doesn't allow for persuasion, it is a full stop. The fear of power tools seems to me like that. So my hypothesis, this fear not the reason, but an excuse. I'm sure it is not true for some people, at the same time I'm sure it is true for some, the question is how many people use it as an excuse. I don't know, but I'd bet that more than 50%.