You are talking about the OS while the person you are discussing with is speaking about the kernel.
The Linux kernel has its own merits outside standard Linux userspace.
I agree, saying that the fact standard Linux distros and Android share the same kernel has no single meaningful implication really undervalues the Linux kernel.
I also agree that it's important to keep in mind the two OSes are mostly incompatible.
The two OSes sharing the kernel have practical implications, including (theoretically) seeing improvements coming from Android dev in the kernel that can benefit standard linux distros, and things like Termux or Waydroid.
Compiling the mainline Linux kernel myself really taught me that the kernel does way more than people give it credit for. Sure, it can be debated as to whether two distributions of Linux can really be considered the same OS, but acting like the kernel is a relatively minor detail comes off to me as ignorant.
You’re keeping a discussion on technical reasoning for why Android and Desktop Linux are separated in a list like that, but the reason is not technical. It’s wholly for convenience. We want to know the performance of Desktop Linux separate from Android. Whether or not they are a different OS or not is irrelevant.
> We want to know the performance of Desktop Linux separate from Android
... Because they are a different OS.
> You’re keeping a discussion on technical reasoning for why Android and Desktop Linux are separated in a list like that
Mind you, my motivation to have them separated aren't that technical. Actually, I'd be more interested in the philosophical / social aspects of the question.
That doesn't mean the technical aspects aren't interesting and this subthread is technical, and I've been snipped by the technical inaccuracies present there.
In a way, the philosophical discussion also has less risk of being clouded by technical inaccuracies too, and more chance of succeeding in the technicalities are sorted out, especially in presence of people who know the technical details.
You are free to spark a nontechnical discussion in which you motivate why, technical details aside, we should be interested in having the two separated. Please do!
So when somebody says "Linux reaches X market share", are they talking about the kernel? Why does it even matter how much the kernel is used? Would you count WSL?
Linux is a kernel, that's it. There is an organisation maintaining it, and also the trademark.
There is also a major family of OSes building on the kernel + gnu userspace, which you probably call "desktop linux".
In my house there are dozens of devices running linux the kernel: routers, a tv set, washing machines, NAS, printers, etc. Some have the full gnu posix-like stack, others are very barebones.
Then, there's is a bunch of android devices running the kernel as well.
What's wrong with all of these? At what point should i draw a line?
You are talking about the OS while the person you are discussing with is speaking about the kernel.
The Linux kernel has its own merits outside standard Linux userspace.
I agree, saying that the fact standard Linux distros and Android share the same kernel has no single meaningful implication really undervalues the Linux kernel.
I also agree that it's important to keep in mind the two OSes are mostly incompatible.
The two OSes sharing the kernel have practical implications, including (theoretically) seeing improvements coming from Android dev in the kernel that can benefit standard linux distros, and things like Termux or Waydroid.
Compiling the mainline Linux kernel myself really taught me that the kernel does way more than people give it credit for. Sure, it can be debated as to whether two distributions of Linux can really be considered the same OS, but acting like the kernel is a relatively minor detail comes off to me as ignorant.
You’re keeping a discussion on technical reasoning for why Android and Desktop Linux are separated in a list like that, but the reason is not technical. It’s wholly for convenience. We want to know the performance of Desktop Linux separate from Android. Whether or not they are a different OS or not is irrelevant.
> We want to know the performance of Desktop Linux separate from Android
... Because they are a different OS.
> You’re keeping a discussion on technical reasoning for why Android and Desktop Linux are separated in a list like that
Mind you, my motivation to have them separated aren't that technical. Actually, I'd be more interested in the philosophical / social aspects of the question.
That doesn't mean the technical aspects aren't interesting and this subthread is technical, and I've been snipped by the technical inaccuracies present there.
In a way, the philosophical discussion also has less risk of being clouded by technical inaccuracies too, and more chance of succeeding in the technicalities are sorted out, especially in presence of people who know the technical details.
You are free to spark a nontechnical discussion in which you motivate why, technical details aside, we should be interested in having the two separated. Please do!
Actually, I did this a bit there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44580682#44583693
So when somebody says "Linux reaches X market share", are they talking about the kernel? Why does it even matter how much the kernel is used? Would you count WSL?
I'm not sure why you are asking me all this, this is beside my points.
> So
I reject the link here.
> when somebody says "Linux reaches X market share", are they talking about the kernel?
Likely not.
> Why does it even matter how much the kernel is used?
Why not? Depends what's your concern.
> Would you count WSL?
Depends what you want to evaluate.
2 replies →
Try Termux and you'll be surprised how much 'Linux' software runs fine on Android, this includes things made to run under X11 etc.
Termux turns my Android phone into a programmable pocket computer.
https://termux.dev/en/
Please give it a try and if you find it useful, donate.
https://github.com/termux-play-store/
What's your point? This mess is caused by Google policies, not technical considerations. You can still install Termux from F-Droid.
We can argue about Android being a horrible OS for all sorts of reasons but that's a separate discussion.
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In practice Linux is a family of different OSes. Sometimes POSIX-centric, sometimes not.
What do you even count as "an OS"? Linux + gnu userland + Gnome? Or is it KDE? Embedded Linux? Does ChromeOS count? LG's WebOS?
Desktop Linux has a clear scope, and we all know. We can act like we don't, but we do.
Can I install LibreOffice on Android? Gnome, KDE, Xfce? Which percentage of packages in the Debian repos can I use on Android?
Linux is a kernel, that's it. There is an organisation maintaining it, and also the trademark.
There is also a major family of OSes building on the kernel + gnu userspace, which you probably call "desktop linux".
In my house there are dozens of devices running linux the kernel: routers, a tv set, washing machines, NAS, printers, etc. Some have the full gnu posix-like stack, others are very barebones.
Then, there's is a bunch of android devices running the kernel as well.
What's wrong with all of these? At what point should i draw a line?
6 replies →