The swatting attacks are public record, and can be confirmed through Toronto police records.
> another hallucination by the Graphene developer
I'm going to assume that by you saying "another" you mean that there were hallucinations before this one.
What you are doing here is repeating baseless claims that they're crazy, which is complete nonsense. This is exactly the kind of problematic stuff that shows up on Kiwi Farms. Again, Rossmann has an account there and some of his videos seem to be made to appeal to Kiwi Farms users.
No. Nobody claimed to know the actual identity of the person.
> Like the attacks he hallucinates from project
They're not hallucinations.
> I am confident in seeing signs of a mental disorder there and stating that publicly.
Not a doctor, but is confident in their diagnosis of someone they don't actually know after watching some YouTube videos.
> Complete Bullshit.
I mean that these kinds of videos where he portrays people as crazy appeals to Kiwi Farmers. His verified account there, him participating there, and him making videos that do appeal to them all add up to me coming to the conclusion that they _SEEM_ to be made with the _intent_ to appeal to Kiwi Farms members.
The above video refers to a video by Destiny (https://youtu.be/ba383Zux0Mo) where he spends a bunch of time defending Kiwi Farms. Rossmann making a video about it and joking about "lolcows" is what has contributed to people at Kiwi Farms worshipping him, and his fan starting a thread about Daniel there where people tell him to kill himself.
Stop defending this stuff and finding every opportunity you can to try and gaslight others - it's weird.
Disclaimer, I am a GrapheneOS user. I was introduced to GOS by Louis Rossmann initial 2 or 3 videos talking about giving them a FUTO grant, as well as praising GOS and showing how it easy it was to install, and how it gave back control to the user, and all the good things that GOS genuinely provides.
I have (unfortunately) followed this saga and went down the rabbit hole since the very beginning. To my understanding based on publicly available data, the key "evidence" put forward by GOS developer(s) / community manager would be:
1. Louis Rossmann leaving the now pinned comment "Informative but unfortunate" on TechLore's video on the leadership of GOS. They claim this is Rossmann showing support for Techlore and his community to (allegedly) harassed the (at the time) lead developer of GOS.
2. Louis Rossmann having KiwiFarm account. Yes, KW is a cesspit. However, all of Rossmann's message on the board mostly focus on either addressing misconceptions about himself, or promoting right to repair and similar topic. This can be easily checked, and at no point there is any public evidence of him supporting harassment toward the GOS developers.
3. Louis Rossmann being acquainted with leadership of other de-googling Android OSes (CalyxOS mainly I think) and also giving them a FUTO grant.
Essentially, "guilt by association". I know this because I have asked the community manager (goes by mbananasynergy on HN, and similar aliases on other platforms), and that is what they provided as "evidence" for Rossmann being guilty of harassing or promoting harassment against them (along with mentions of having 2 millions of USD worth of backing and ready to sue Rossmann, which has not materialized as far as know since ~1.5 years ago).
I want to preface by saying that GOS is really a good software, I have been using it for 2 or 3 years since then, and no complaints on that side.
My biggest gripe however, is indeed with the leadership and management of the community.
I created a new account instead of posting this with my main because the leadership is in my experience very abrasive, to say the least.
I have been banned without appeal from their Mastodon for leaving "thumbs up" smiley on : 1) messages suggesting the GOS devs to do an interview with Rossmann (as he did with other projects that received a FUTO grant) to further spread the word, or 2) messages suggesting to clear up the misunderstanding between the devs and Rossmann.
Any disagreement on their official narrative, or contrary opinion (even in good faith) leads to bans if they are in control of the platform, and accusations of collaborating with groups that harass the developers. Even here, anything contrary to that narrative will receive the usual wall of text describing the poster as sockpuppets, harassers directed by Rossmann, Techlore, CalyxOS, or any other projects GOS developers are beefing with.
I am disappointed by the situation, because I think GOS could have a larger presence and contribute to raising awareness about the importance of data security, but their leadership seems to be a considerable roadblock on that direction.
This is a very interesting summary indeed, however I think matters are simpler and noone needs to dive that deep.
Unfortunatelly, EVERYONE, from all parties, fire shots for the wrong reasons, which perverts the discussion.
When you say to people to not use GOS because the lead dev is paranoid or the community is hostile you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The value GOS brings is undisputable. The quirkiness of the leadership is also undisputable. Let's decouple the two. If you wish for the community to get better, become yourself the better contact point amd generally focus on suggestion on that matter. Don't say to people to not use arguably the most secure android rom!
I used to respect Rossmann a lot, but he fell in my eyes both for the LTT and the GOS incident. I have been watching LTT since a kid and I know that his has grown to be a jerk without looking at his private communications, but his competitors fired shots at him for the wrong reasons (honey case) and so did Rossmann, riding the wave.
If you want to criticize someone for being a jerk do it, but do it for the right reasons, don't muddy the waters by injecting other stuff in the discussion.
> When you say to people to not use GOS because the lead dev is paranoid or the community is hostile you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The value GOS brings is undisputable. The quirkiness of the leadership is also undisputable. Let's decouple the two. If you wish for the community to get better, become yourself the better contact point amd generally focus on suggestion on that matter. Don't say to people to not use arguably the most secure android rom!
It's one thing to separate the artist from the art, but I think that analogy does not apply when it comes to e.g. an operating system which essentially handles all of your private data.
If anything, not being able to separate the art from the artist is the exact reason why GOS exists, the artist being "Google" and all their controversial practices.
(Edit: or a simpler analogy, would you trust the food (art) of a cook (artist) that threatens to ruin your life ?)
The OOP is entitled to express his informed opinion and even provided what he based it upon.
As a user, I think that is important context when it comes to picking something as sensitive as an OS.
> I used to respect Rossmann a lot, but he fell in my eyes both for the LTT and the GOS incident. I have been watching LTT since a kid and I know that his has grown to be a jerk without looking at his private communications, but his competitors fired shots at him for the wrong reasons (honey case) and so did Rossmann, riding the wave.
I happen to have a similar background as far as LTT (weekly WAN show and what not) and Rossmann are concerned
As I mentioned before I (unfortunately) went into the GOS incident rabbit hole and overall still think Rossmann was principled.
As far as Rossmann's criticism of Linus about the LTT Honey case, perhaps he could have had a more nuanced approach, yes.
Regarding the BilletLabs cooling block, or the "Trust Me Bro", his criticism was substantive, and came from his own business background on dealing with customers (although you can argue that Rossmann has high standards).
I don't think Rossmann "fired shots for the wrong reasons", namely since LTT has publicly acknowledge the issues.
> If you want to criticize someone for being a jerk do it, but do it for the right reasons, don't muddy the waters by injecting other stuff in the discussion.
Just curious, but who is muddying waters, and how ?
The swatting attacks are public record, and can be confirmed through Toronto police records.
> another hallucination by the Graphene developer
I'm going to assume that by you saying "another" you mean that there were hallucinations before this one.
What you are doing here is repeating baseless claims that they're crazy, which is complete nonsense. This is exactly the kind of problematic stuff that shows up on Kiwi Farms. Again, Rossmann has an account there and some of his videos seem to be made to appeal to Kiwi Farms users.
Is having an account on Kiwifarms evidence that Rossmann is either directly or indirectly responsible for harassment against the GOS developer(s) ?
[flagged]
> You claim you know who did it.
No. Nobody claimed to know the actual identity of the person.
> Like the attacks he hallucinates from project
They're not hallucinations.
> I am confident in seeing signs of a mental disorder there and stating that publicly.
Not a doctor, but is confident in their diagnosis of someone they don't actually know after watching some YouTube videos.
> Complete Bullshit.
I mean that these kinds of videos where he portrays people as crazy appeals to Kiwi Farmers. His verified account there, him participating there, and him making videos that do appeal to them all add up to me coming to the conclusion that they _SEEM_ to be made with the _intent_ to appeal to Kiwi Farms members.
4 replies →
>Complete Bullshit. Provide links to the videos, otherwise that is another evidenceless attack and just confirms your pattern.
I assume you're not disputing that Rossmann has a verified Kiwi Farms account, that much is well documented.
https://youtu.be/wgF92Wi8J7o
The above video refers to a video by Destiny (https://youtu.be/ba383Zux0Mo) where he spends a bunch of time defending Kiwi Farms. Rossmann making a video about it and joking about "lolcows" is what has contributed to people at Kiwi Farms worshipping him, and his fan starting a thread about Daniel there where people tell him to kill himself.
Stop defending this stuff and finding every opportunity you can to try and gaslight others - it's weird.
Unfortunately I don't think they do.
Disclaimer, I am a GrapheneOS user. I was introduced to GOS by Louis Rossmann initial 2 or 3 videos talking about giving them a FUTO grant, as well as praising GOS and showing how it easy it was to install, and how it gave back control to the user, and all the good things that GOS genuinely provides.
I have (unfortunately) followed this saga and went down the rabbit hole since the very beginning. To my understanding based on publicly available data, the key "evidence" put forward by GOS developer(s) / community manager would be:
1. Louis Rossmann leaving the now pinned comment "Informative but unfortunate" on TechLore's video on the leadership of GOS. They claim this is Rossmann showing support for Techlore and his community to (allegedly) harassed the (at the time) lead developer of GOS.
2. Louis Rossmann having KiwiFarm account. Yes, KW is a cesspit. However, all of Rossmann's message on the board mostly focus on either addressing misconceptions about himself, or promoting right to repair and similar topic. This can be easily checked, and at no point there is any public evidence of him supporting harassment toward the GOS developers.
3. Louis Rossmann being acquainted with leadership of other de-googling Android OSes (CalyxOS mainly I think) and also giving them a FUTO grant.
Essentially, "guilt by association". I know this because I have asked the community manager (goes by mbananasynergy on HN, and similar aliases on other platforms), and that is what they provided as "evidence" for Rossmann being guilty of harassing or promoting harassment against them (along with mentions of having 2 millions of USD worth of backing and ready to sue Rossmann, which has not materialized as far as know since ~1.5 years ago).
I want to preface by saying that GOS is really a good software, I have been using it for 2 or 3 years since then, and no complaints on that side. My biggest gripe however, is indeed with the leadership and management of the community.
I created a new account instead of posting this with my main because the leadership is in my experience very abrasive, to say the least. I have been banned without appeal from their Mastodon for leaving "thumbs up" smiley on : 1) messages suggesting the GOS devs to do an interview with Rossmann (as he did with other projects that received a FUTO grant) to further spread the word, or 2) messages suggesting to clear up the misunderstanding between the devs and Rossmann.
Any disagreement on their official narrative, or contrary opinion (even in good faith) leads to bans if they are in control of the platform, and accusations of collaborating with groups that harass the developers. Even here, anything contrary to that narrative will receive the usual wall of text describing the poster as sockpuppets, harassers directed by Rossmann, Techlore, CalyxOS, or any other projects GOS developers are beefing with.
I am disappointed by the situation, because I think GOS could have a larger presence and contribute to raising awareness about the importance of data security, but their leadership seems to be a considerable roadblock on that direction.
This is a very interesting summary indeed, however I think matters are simpler and noone needs to dive that deep.
Unfortunatelly, EVERYONE, from all parties, fire shots for the wrong reasons, which perverts the discussion.
When you say to people to not use GOS because the lead dev is paranoid or the community is hostile you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The value GOS brings is undisputable. The quirkiness of the leadership is also undisputable. Let's decouple the two. If you wish for the community to get better, become yourself the better contact point amd generally focus on suggestion on that matter. Don't say to people to not use arguably the most secure android rom!
I used to respect Rossmann a lot, but he fell in my eyes both for the LTT and the GOS incident. I have been watching LTT since a kid and I know that his has grown to be a jerk without looking at his private communications, but his competitors fired shots at him for the wrong reasons (honey case) and so did Rossmann, riding the wave.
If you want to criticize someone for being a jerk do it, but do it for the right reasons, don't muddy the waters by injecting other stuff in the discussion.
> When you say to people to not use GOS because the lead dev is paranoid or the community is hostile you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The value GOS brings is undisputable. The quirkiness of the leadership is also undisputable. Let's decouple the two. If you wish for the community to get better, become yourself the better contact point amd generally focus on suggestion on that matter. Don't say to people to not use arguably the most secure android rom!
It's one thing to separate the artist from the art, but I think that analogy does not apply when it comes to e.g. an operating system which essentially handles all of your private data. If anything, not being able to separate the art from the artist is the exact reason why GOS exists, the artist being "Google" and all their controversial practices. (Edit: or a simpler analogy, would you trust the food (art) of a cook (artist) that threatens to ruin your life ?)
The OOP is entitled to express his informed opinion and even provided what he based it upon. As a user, I think that is important context when it comes to picking something as sensitive as an OS.
> I used to respect Rossmann a lot, but he fell in my eyes both for the LTT and the GOS incident. I have been watching LTT since a kid and I know that his has grown to be a jerk without looking at his private communications, but his competitors fired shots at him for the wrong reasons (honey case) and so did Rossmann, riding the wave.
I happen to have a similar background as far as LTT (weekly WAN show and what not) and Rossmann are concerned As I mentioned before I (unfortunately) went into the GOS incident rabbit hole and overall still think Rossmann was principled. As far as Rossmann's criticism of Linus about the LTT Honey case, perhaps he could have had a more nuanced approach, yes. Regarding the BilletLabs cooling block, or the "Trust Me Bro", his criticism was substantive, and came from his own business background on dealing with customers (although you can argue that Rossmann has high standards). I don't think Rossmann "fired shots for the wrong reasons", namely since LTT has publicly acknowledge the issues.
> If you want to criticize someone for being a jerk do it, but do it for the right reasons, don't muddy the waters by injecting other stuff in the discussion.
Just curious, but who is muddying waters, and how ?
7 replies →