Comment by 0xEF
6 days ago
Spoken like a true middle manager. Attention is not the resource, but the act of spending the actual resource; time.
Time is your most precious resource. Everyone wants more, but there is no way to get more. Nobody knows when their supply will run out. We do not produce it, having been granted a finite amount of it by our existence.
Attention is to time as shopping is to your paycheck.
Spoken like a true <insert derogatory term>.
I disagree. My paycheck stays what it is when I do not go shopping. Time keeps running out regardless of where my attention goes.
To me it seems that attention most certainly is a separate resource.
And more importantly, regardless of what it is, it is more important. Time is meaningless. My attention is not.
I agree and dont understand the OP. I drink coffee out of the fear that I would waste my whole days time. The coffee allows me to spend some hours of focus time on what I want. In line with the blog posts point. This has been a struggle to all my life, its very hard to control my focus, my attention. I've been diagnosed with adhd (for whats that worth) and at some point took medication who's whole purpose was to allow me to control my focus. When I have unbridled focus, I suddenly have access to my brains full capacity. I think my IQ is easily 10 or 30 points higher / lower depending if I have focus or not.
Interesting to consider here is that we can measure time, but we can't measure attention. How we use attention alters how we experience time. It also alters the quality of what we can get from the time spent.
There are a lot of interdependent dynamics involving the experiences of time, attention, the outcomes of their use, and the resulting qualia between the three.
Shopping and paycheques seem extremely quantitative, but the matter of time and attention is quite qualitative as well. I wouldn't agree that they're the same, either.
One could argue that what you buy has qualitative aspects, but let's say you're just buying commodities to feed yourself or clean your home or what have you. Not choosing between New Balance and Nike and worrying about the corresponding qualitative factors. In this scenario I find the two hard to compare meaningfully. They seem like they're layers of abstraction away from being properly compatible.
I realize this is entirely subjective and these ideas are fairly fungible at a glance. It's just interesting to think about.
Well... unless you know how to turn your brain completely off while being awake, you're probably always giving your attention to something. Consequently, attention and time both spend at very similar rates.
I totally agree with you, all I can add to those who don't is that the true universal value of time as the only currency that is valuable is fully understood when you're closer to 40s and definitively there is not enough when you're after your 40s... Younger people think they are immortal and always have time for something... especially to be distracted. Then comes that other discovery.
This makes me terribly sad for the TikTok generation to enter their 40s. I’m in my 30s and don’t use social media, and I’m already saddened by the amount of my life algorithms have wasted
Either that or the next generation will develop multitasking abilities we cannot even comprehend as we become the sour elders.
Kids this days...
And the obligatory https://xkcd.com/1227/
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Time isn’t really a currency though because you have no option not to spend it. I’ve never really understood this analogy.
> Then comes that other discovery
A lot of us don't get it until the first big loss.
I agree with you when it comes to life in general. However, I think most people regard time spent working as fixed and already having been spent, and so maximizing the value of your attention is what is important.
I read the article assuming they were talking about work, not life in general.
Time-Giving-Attention is strictly less than Time though, at least as far as an external observer can measure, and is therefore scarcer, and scarcer still if it has additional requirements like Human Brain Is Awake.
Everyone wanting more time is just them conflating time with attention. It’s possible to waste a lot of time not paying attention to the right things. Attention is the real cash value of time, and it’s on us to wisely apply our attention to what actually matters.
Attention is not the sole use of time. Nothing wrong with taking a morning sitting in a cafe and watching the world go by if you don't have anything urgent needing doing.
Time is the markings on the field. Attention is the whole ball game.
That cafe scenario is still allowing your attention to watch the world. You can also daydream or mind wander and allow your attention to be squandered on not useful, even harmful things, like negative thought cycles.
This is why attention is the cash value, not time, because it’s so easy to misplace our attention and waste it, gaining no value. and yet time is going forward at the same pace, it is not possible for us to “waste” time itself, if it’s always happening no matter our actions.
Attention is what we actually are doing at any moment. Time is taken up by sleeping, being unconscious, and also being attentive while conscious. The amount of attention we can muster in our waking hours, the amount of things we can focus on and get done, that matters more than mere time.
Again it’s like saying all that matters is the amount of miles you hiked, not the beautiful things you saw and the challenges you overcame on the mountain. Miles and time are mere measurements.
And downvotes aren’t used for disagreement on this forum, they’re for low-effort, non-contributing comments.
Time and attention have the same dimensions and units I think, but they aren't quite the same. A 1:1 ratio would be the upper limit (full attention).
But time is just an emergent property of quantum consciousness. Plenty more of it will be along in a minute.
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>Time is your most precious resource.
This is just false. Time cannot be your most precious resource, because there are many, many ways to push the likelihood of you dying tomorrow, next year, or next decade down considerably from where it is. Exercising, for example, or reaching a healthy weight, or quitting recreational substances like alcohol or opioids. Yet in reality we see a great many people who refuse to do any of these things, and statistically end up with less time because of it. Empirically speaking this is very strong evidence against time's claim to ultimate value.
It's true that there seems to be a maximum amount of time our unaugmented wetware can provide us, but something being finite does not make it the most important thing you have. I have a finite amount of money in my pocket, yet money isn't my terminal goal.
Your argument rests on rational choice theory, which is occasionally, in limited circumstances, a useful analytical framework, but insofar as it can be operationalized into a trstable form is fairly thoroughly falsified.
If people aren't, as we fairly well know they aren't, perfectly rational utility maximizers, than the fact that people do not consistently take an action or set of actions which would be utility optimal if a given proposition were true is not xounterevidence to the proposition.
It rests on much more limited evidence than that. You would realize that immediately if you didn't reflexively cast anything you didn't like hearing into a platonic shadow on the wall so you can sneer at it.
We're not talking Bryan Johnson here. People fail so, so often at taking any of the most absolutely obvious, well known, high ROI things they could do to actually increase the number of seconds they spend breathing that "erm but people aren't perfectly rational" doesn't cut it. By and large, they simply do not care that much.
I'm not arguing that it's logical, but I do think it's natural for humans to want to do the thing that pleases them now even if it costs them some unknown number of years of life in the unforeseeable future.
No, you misunderstand. I'm arguing it is logical for them to do that. You just have to stop looking at them as though they actually hold "maximize number of seconds alive" as their first, second or even third most important thing in life.