Anecdotally, Denver home prices appear to be down compared to a few years ago as well. The ~850sqft unit next to mine sold for $700k 2-3 years ago and I’m certain it’d go in the low 600s now.
The "fuck you got mine" attitude so many homeowners have and deliberate supply restriction to increase property values makes it a smart investment on paper, at the cost of screwing everyone else coming after you.
Why is it wrong to want to have equity in the place you live? "Ownership" could be a house, it could be a townhome, it could be flat. But in the US, "owning" an apartment is very rare, while real estate investors buy up all the valuable land in the urban cores of cities and rent it.
If you want equity in real estate nobody is stopping you. The problem is when people get this idea that we need to discourage investors from building very greatly desired rental housing.
The problem isn't home ownership, it's zoning regulations being done locally so that areas full of owner-occupied single-family homes are the only ones eligible to vote on whether higher density housing can be built there, in combination with the "got mine" attitude that causes them to vote in the way that constrains supply.
It's good for people to be able to own their homes. They should be able to own their homes instead of paying a large fraction of their paycheck to landlords as rent or banks as mortgage payments. But that requires housing costs to get lower rather than higher, which in turn requires some kind of state- or national-level policy to prevent local homeowners from sustaining the opposite.
Yes and: As you know, encouraging home ownership is policy. Meant to reduce elderly poverty. It worked, plus all sorts of adverse effects that now hitting hard.
I'd rather we had pensions, universal healthcare, and maybe ponies.
Not wrong at all. Previously owner-occupied single family homes will continue to be bulldozed and replaced with 8 story wooden boxes, owned by national corporate landlords of course.
>> single family homes will continue to be bulldozed and replaced with 8 story wooden boxes, owned by national corporate landlords of course
> Source? Why of course?
Maybe I'm talking past someone, but the concept that was being described is self-evident. So, I'll just say this isn't a controversial take, from an urban planning standpoint. It's been demonstrated for hundreds of years (albeit, slightly different wealth sources).
The pattern of smaller, high density housing, is the most efficient way to build profit in a population center. As density increases, central hubs appear. Land (specifically residential land) skyrockets in value as it's most scarce, within and immediate^1 and surrounding areas. 1 family paying rent on the land is less efficient than 1xN. The investment necessary to risk and realize those N returns are out of the reach of any entity other than a conglomerate. Singular elite investors generally do not engage in that risk, although there have been historic outliers. Cities also find it more expedient to eminent domain aging single family homes, more than taking on the corporate owned high density housing, further entrenching their relative durability. Despite the highly variable timelines, American cities have followed the common pattern of density housing owned by corporations replacing single family homes, in population centers, for a very long time.
^1 For some value of immediate, based on available mass transit and other environmental factors
> wrong of me to be sad that it's rent and not home prices?
Rents are higher frequency than home prices. Ceteris paribus, prices follow yields.
Denver home values peaked in May of 2022 and have yet to recover:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DNXRSA
What you're saying is technically true, but that graph shows the current prices very close to the all time high.
Anecdotally, Denver home prices appear to be down compared to a few years ago as well. The ~850sqft unit next to mine sold for $700k 2-3 years ago and I’m certain it’d go in the low 600s now.
home prices are falling in a lot of places. :shrug: denver could always be next
Yes, it is in fact quite wrong and one of the biggest obstacles in American society is fetishization of homeownership.
You may object to it, but a home has been the smartest investment I've ever made.
The "fuck you got mine" attitude so many homeowners have and deliberate supply restriction to increase property values makes it a smart investment on paper, at the cost of screwing everyone else coming after you.
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Why is it wrong to want to have equity in the place you live? "Ownership" could be a house, it could be a townhome, it could be flat. But in the US, "owning" an apartment is very rare, while real estate investors buy up all the valuable land in the urban cores of cities and rent it.
If you want equity in real estate nobody is stopping you. The problem is when people get this idea that we need to discourage investors from building very greatly desired rental housing.
8 replies →
The problem isn't home ownership, it's zoning regulations being done locally so that areas full of owner-occupied single-family homes are the only ones eligible to vote on whether higher density housing can be built there, in combination with the "got mine" attitude that causes them to vote in the way that constrains supply.
It's good for people to be able to own their homes. They should be able to own their homes instead of paying a large fraction of their paycheck to landlords as rent or banks as mortgage payments. But that requires housing costs to get lower rather than higher, which in turn requires some kind of state- or national-level policy to prevent local homeowners from sustaining the opposite.
> fetishization
Yes and: As you know, encouraging home ownership is policy. Meant to reduce elderly poverty. It worked, plus all sorts of adverse effects that now hitting hard.
I'd rather we had pensions, universal healthcare, and maybe ponies.
Not wrong at all. Previously owner-occupied single family homes will continue to be bulldozed and replaced with 8 story wooden boxes, owned by national corporate landlords of course.
> single family homes will continue to be bulldozed and replaced with 8 story wooden boxes, owned by national corporate landlords of course
Source? Why of course?
>> single family homes will continue to be bulldozed and replaced with 8 story wooden boxes, owned by national corporate landlords of course
> Source? Why of course?
Maybe I'm talking past someone, but the concept that was being described is self-evident. So, I'll just say this isn't a controversial take, from an urban planning standpoint. It's been demonstrated for hundreds of years (albeit, slightly different wealth sources).
The pattern of smaller, high density housing, is the most efficient way to build profit in a population center. As density increases, central hubs appear. Land (specifically residential land) skyrockets in value as it's most scarce, within and immediate^1 and surrounding areas. 1 family paying rent on the land is less efficient than 1xN. The investment necessary to risk and realize those N returns are out of the reach of any entity other than a conglomerate. Singular elite investors generally do not engage in that risk, although there have been historic outliers. Cities also find it more expedient to eminent domain aging single family homes, more than taking on the corporate owned high density housing, further entrenching their relative durability. Despite the highly variable timelines, American cities have followed the common pattern of density housing owned by corporations replacing single family homes, in population centers, for a very long time.
^1 For some value of immediate, based on available mass transit and other environmental factors
1 reply →