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Comment by msikora

3 days ago

California doesn't have a special minimum wage for tipped professions? When I was waiting tables a long time ago I think my pay was $1.95 an hour. It was usually just enough to cover tax on tips (the ones we admitted).

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msikora

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godelski  3 days ago 

  > California doesn't have a special minimum wage for tipped professions?

NO STATE has a "special minimum wage for tipped professionals". MOST STATES allow tips to be *credited* towards wage, but NO STATE allows an employee to be paid less than minimum wage. There's a "special minimum wage THAT EMPLOYERS MUST CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS a tipped professional'S WAGE", but that's a very different thing than "the minimal amount of pay an employee may receive."

The difference is where the money comes from: directly from employer vs directly from customer. But in all cases *the sum of these sources* must equal the minimum wage.

If the employee is not taking home at least minimum wage, then the employer is guilty of wage theft.

If the employer does not make at least $x towards an employee's wage, the employer is guilty of wage theft.

So instead, read the CA's (and AK, MN, MT, NV, OR, WA) rule as "tips may not be credited towards an employee's salary".

[0] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

  • kelnos  2 days ago

    You keep posting this over and over as if states with a lower tipped minimum are equivalent to states with the same minimum, regardless of tips.

    You're not wrong that, in states with a lower tipped minimum, the tips act as a credit. But you're ignoring what the power imbalance in those situations can do to an employee, and you're ignoring the fact that in states like that, tips paid by customers are effectively subsidizing the employer out of paying minimum wage.

    And I don't think that it would be surprising that wage theft is more common in places where the tipped minimum is set lower than the general minimum.

    As a customer, I would much rather know that the employer is paying the full fair minimum wage regardless, and any tip I leave will always be on top of that. I don't want to be paying a part of the employee's wage that the employer would otherwise be paying.

    • godelski  2 days ago

      I hear you, but your solution sounds defeatist. Like there's nothing that can be done.

        > tips paid by customers are effectively subsidizing the employer out of paying minimum wage.

      Not effectively, literally. That is what a credit is.

      But I'm making sure that the conversation is clear that anyone not making minimum wage is suffering from wage theft. We have to identify the right problem if we want to fix it.

        > As a customer, I would much rather know that the employer is paying the full fair minimum wage regardless

      I also like this idea. I don't think there should be a wage credit. It is helpful to reducing wage theft. While I would, personally, get rid of credits I don't think I'd get rid of tipping all together. Certainly at least not until there's a better minimum wage rate.

        >  I don't want to be paying a part of the employee's wage that the employer would otherwise be paying.

      You're always doing this. Either your money goes directly to the employee or is going to the employee through the intermediary of the employer. In the case you are not directly paying the employee you're paying the employer.

  • FireBeyond  2 days ago

    > If the employer does not make at least $x towards an employee's wage, the employer is guilty of wage theft.

    See what your server's reaction is if you tell them to report this wage theft.

    They won't. They'll just suggest you tip them to compensate.

    • godelski  2 days ago

      They should. It's easy to report. Doesn't matter if nothing happens right away, because the more reports that accumulate the higher priority it becomes.

      So instead of trying to tell me how fruitless this is and just give up to endless arguments, maybe report wage theft if you know about it. You can do it anonymously. You can do it for people that tell you. It's not a hopeless situation. Hell, lawyers take payment after the case is won, and you know if your wage is being stolen then others are too

      3 replies →

sundaeofshock  3 days ago

California has not had a tipped minimum wage since at least the early 2000s, and I can’t seem to find any information on what is in the 1900s.

jandrewrogers  3 days ago

They eliminated the special minimum wage for tipped professions in Seattle too, which is currently $20.76 per hour.