← Back to context

Comment by exasperaited

2 days ago

> I've heard of MPs making (moronic) suggestions such as selling kitchen knives without the point on it. I've literally seen this advertised as a solution on the news.

As someone who is clumsy and easily distracted, I have such a kitchen knife. They are commonly available. It works absolutely fine and it has three times minimised an injury that would have been nasty because I am an easily-distracted tired old idiot.

The point of a knife is only needed in a handful of kitchen applications. Most knives do not need to be able to stab at all. Only cut.

And combined with rules on the sales of longer blades that do have a point, this idea could genuinely be part of reducing knife crime (especially among the very youngest).

Because it does reduce access to knives that would be useful for stabbing, and it reduces the severity of injuries caused by the youngest in knife crime incidents. Without meaningfully affecting the kitchen usefulness of most small blades at all.

If I go to a supermarket and buy a long enough knife with a point on it, in theory I am asked to prove my age (in practice they laugh at the idea that I might not be young enough). The same is true for many (not all) products on Amazon, in fact.

The knife without a point on it did not trigger age verification. Nor does a boxcutter type thing, in practice; only retractible blades that don't snap off are on the list, AFAIK. (And only flick-knife-type mechanisms are banned).

I anticipate being downvoted for simply writing about this, but harm reduction through knife sales controls is not something that just stupid MPs think: it is supported by expert opinion.

Knife crime in the UK is a problem. It is still not a problem as severe per-capita as it is elsewhere, but we are trying measures to dissuade it.

Behaviour modification is not always stupid or evil; cultures do it all the time.

A tipless knife may prevent accidents, but if you purposefully tried to stab yourself or someone else with one of those knives, do you honestly believe it wouldn't tear right through your flesh? Neither my butter knives or bread knives have tips, and yet I could easily stab people with them.

  • FWIW the data suggests that thin cotton clothing can stop these knives much more effectively, and therefore could at least make impulse knife crime (indoor assaults) much, much less deadly.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rounded-knif...

    Let's Be Blunt have more data: https://www.letsbeblunt.co.uk

    • I don't really find anything in those sources convincing. One is a researcher for an anti-knife crime advocacy group that makes vague statements about how it will reduce injuries, but don't specify how much, and says their research still needs to be validated before publishing. And the other stuff is just statistics of how many people get stabbed with kitchen knifes with the assumption that if everyone had blunt knives instead that either less people would be stabbed or their stab wounds would not be so serious, which is the point I find suspect to start with.

      Yes if you wear enough cloth it can block blunt stabs okay, but I very much doubt peoples regular clothes are going to do anything except drag some dirty cloth into the wound unless they walk around with thick work bibs on all the time or 3-4 layers of denim. And even that is still very limited protection to someone actively trying to stab through it. A screwdriver is even more blunt than these blunted knives and it would have no problem going through any clothes except maybe a reenactors linen gambeson.

> The point of a knife is only needed in a handful of kitchen applications. Most knives do not need to be able to stab at all. Only cut.

But this isn't about what "most knives" need to be able to do.

This is about what everyone in the UK will be permitted to buy.

"I don't need to do X often, so why should I worry about it?" is a really, really bad attitude to take when your government is considering banning X for the entire country.

  • No, it's not. At all!

    It's about what everyone not old enough will be permitted to buy.

    Nobody is saying that pointed knives shouldn't be sold; they are saying two things:

    1) children shouldn't be able to buy them (they can't)

    2) behaviour modification might suggest that fewer such knives even have to be made, because they aren't as important as they seem, and that might keep more convenient knives out of the hands of very young misguided children

    The law has created a situation where I as an adult can:

    1) buy a pointed knife if it looks like I am an adult (or it doesn't and I can prove I am)

    2) buy a non-pointed knife without proving it.

    This seems acceptable to me. I expect to be downvoted without a meaningful reply for saying so, because that is the way of things here.

    I appreciate your policing my attitude but I don't know where you get the complete nonsense that the government is considering banning X for the entire country for this X or any other. Because they are not.

    We in Europe try not to assume that Marjorie Taylor-Greene speaks for all Americans. There are 650 MPs in the UK Parliament, and some of them are silly or misinformed. One or two are as stupid as she is. Try to take that in.

[flagged]