Comment by thevillagechief
21 hours ago
Woah! This stuff is unwinding faster than my priors. I'm going to have to re-evaluate everything I thought true about the US. I just always assumed "strong institutions" meant something here. That it was all a house built on sand is disconcerting.
Before you think this is happening quickly, do note that public institutions have been under attack from the right for generations, including publicly funded education, public broadcasters, public health and social programs.
These attacks are not unique to the United States; there is a coordinated effort across many countries by public policy groups and private interests. The United States are highly visible due to their ownership of global media, but the Republican party has been pursuing these objectives publicly and clearly for more than 30 years, and has made incremental progress to the point where they were able to re-engineer the Supreme Court and lower courts, as well as elect far right politicians who would tear up the rules to make it happen.
This is the sharp upwards curve of increase in velocity that is the result of sustained accelleration over the last few decades. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, and not just in the United States.
This has been a project under way since the friggin' John Birchers and the postwar "think-tank" boom. They've (this specific set of interests, not conservatism in general) been successfully ratcheting things toward authoritarianism since their Chicago school pals got the right people in the right places to radically change how we enforced anti-trust in the '70s (that is, they made it impossible for us to enforce in all but the most egregious cases, period) and have been winning one boring but effective battle after another ever since (plus the occasional headline-grabbing one).
Often these victories have contributed to further momentum—concentration of wealth means more money for the cause; death of the "fairness doctrine" opens up the possibility of wholly partisan media for propagandizing, which was instantly capitalized on with a boom in right wing AM radio; Citizens United decision de facto ending campaign finance regulation, well that's sure convenient; all kinds of things.
This has been more than a half-century in the making.
Yup.
The books Democracy in Chains, Lobbying America, and Dark Money are three (of many, many) good intros to the conservative reaction to the The New Deal.
The dissolution and dismantling of US gov institutions that we are witnessing is unprecedented in modern times. Hell, a few of the agencies being attacked were created with bipartisan support.
I would say it isn't that our institutions were built on sand, more that its hard to stop a madman who broke into your house with a chainsaw (a la Musk) from knocking down a few load-bearing walls.
It is easier to destroy almost anything than it is to create it in the first place.
> Hell, a few of the agencies being attacked were created with bipartisan support.
It's worse than that. PEPFAR was a signature initiative of the previous Republican president.
Why must everything be viewed as Democrat vs. Republican? Trump is best viewed as a case of outsider vs. entrenched bureaucracy / deep state. Party is irrelevant.
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> I would say it isn't that our institutions were built on sand, more that its hard to stop a madman who broke into your house with a chainsaw (a la Musk) from knocking down a few load-bearing walls.
This isn't due to one man (Musk) or a rogue government agency, or even the executive branch.
This is Congress, which tells you how bad things have gotten.
> This is Congress, which tells you how bad things have gotten.
Ok, but to be clear, Congress gets to. Congress has done about-faces like this before, yet the Republic is still here.
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It isn't Congress writ large, is the Republican caucus in Congress. And the Republican caucus in the SCOTUS.
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The institutions that are not being dismantled are the ones required by the constitution. The ones being dismantled, being statutory in nature, are fair game, and if anything this shows that the constitutional institutions are in fact able to rule over the statutory ones, thus the constitutional institutions come out of this stronger, not weaker. The constitutional institutions are:
CPB and the like are statutory institutions. Those can come and they can go. Sometimes they go. They can come back you know. The next time the Democrats are in power they can bring all those institutions back and then some, and they can tear down any institutions that Trump creates or takes over. The critical thing is that it be possible for the Democrats to win again in the future, and then that Republicans be able to win again in the future, and so on.
>more that its hard to stop a madman who broke into your house with a chainsaw
I think it's very fitting that you'd use this metaphor, because the people you oppose wouldn't even find that slightly challenging.
This isn't Musk's fault; he's just the asshole scapegoat. This is directly from the Conservative Think Tanks who finally got a President willing to strip everything down in government while increasing insane spends elsewhere (e.g., $200MM ballroom for the White House while cutting revenue) based on the will of 44% of the voting population of the country.
If anything, government should have been cut AND revenues increased; but, that's not how either party works. (disgusting oversimplification: Republicans reduce revenue and reduce spend while Democrats increase revenue and increase spend).
This is it. It always was a house of cards. A house of cards that everyone tacitly agreed to protect and preserve through norms. Then, the Conservative Think Tanks found someone who was willing to dispense with all of those norms. They gambled that people and Congress wouldn't really care (in the short term, anyway). And they were right.
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i guess they should have been more trustworthy. once its lost, trust is hard to earn back.
Large groups voting for "tear it all down, we don't trust institutions" wasn't a sign for you back in 2016? what were your priors before this year?
My point here is that "strong institutions" were supposed to stem this tide. Of course, I should have thought through who made up these institutions. In some ways institutions kind of held up pretty well 2016-2020. Which is why I was a little less worried. But looks like that was a dry run. The efficiency with which this is happening now is shocking. Honestly, I'm kind of impressed. If we applied this much efficiency constructively in the US, we'd probably see post-war prosperity levels. I imagine even NASA would approach the 1960s productivity.
You gotta hand it to the project 2025 people, they really organized and got their own planners in the right positions to execute on that.
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My "holy shit, we're in for... interesting times, and like, soon" moment was when Trump suggested his supporters might shoot Hillary if she won ("If she wins, I can't do anything about it. But the 'Second Amendment people'...."), and didn't see a huge hit to his popularity, and supporters in his own camp distancing themselves, immediately.
Norms are dead, you can just suggest assassination of your opponent and still win a Presidential election now, the batshit crazy stuff's not just for races in rural Montana or whatever. Like, IDK how this reads to younger folks, but I assure them that things are now happening practically daily that would have been unthinkable 15 years ago, let alone farther back. Things got visibly weirder fast.
I'm in my mid 30s and have definitely noticed a gap in perception between people in their early 20s who haven't experienced much of pre-2016 politics and the older folks. The younger folks are much less alarmed because they weren't familiar with the "normal political discourse" that occurred when they were children.
It makes it hard to be optimistic that there is any plausible roadmap back to some form of normalcy in the medium term.
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That's what worries me. young kids today have no idea how fucked up things are right now because this is all they've ever known.
Just this week Trump posted on his social media that Obama should be indicted for treason, aka, executed and not a blip from the supposed left-wing media
The institutions WERE strong. It’s taken decades to unwind them. But yes, we’ve definitely crossed a big acceleration lately.
Capturing the Supreme Court so completely was the turning point, in terms of ability to enact their agenda quickly. It's been conservative my entire not short any more life, but it's strongly packed with disingenuous, ideologically-motivated jurists vetted and guided by the "correct" organizations, now.
I wish anyone with even a little power were talking about ditching the position of "Supreme Court Justice" and just drawing for the role by lot from the "lower" federal courts each term. That could be done with a law, not an amendment-there has to be a Supreme Court, and federal judgeships are "during good behavior" (de facto "for life") but Supreme Court Justice per se doesn't have to be a permanent role. The closest I hear anyone talking about is court expansion, but that's a less-effective fix, and one more likely to draw strong push-back and to be unpopular, I think.
The problem with the Supreme Court is the handshake-agreement to limit the court's size in combination with lifetime appointments and the Senate majority leader's pocket veto. Going back to 1992 (eight Presidential terms, three served by Republicans and five by Democrats), Republican presidents have successfully nominated six justices while Democrats only five (including a no-vote for Merrick Garland).
The better thing to do, in my mind, is to limit the term length of a justice and eliminate the pocket veto, but I can't think of any way in which the elimination of a pocket veto also can't be exploited in some way (eg: with a 6-3 court, if a Republican-aligned justice stepped down, a Republican president can knowingly put forward a candidate they know won't get approved to keep the margin 5-3 vs. 5-4).
Europeans seem to understand this better than Americans, because the US has never really devolved from democracy into authoritarianism, but several European countries have. That's why e.g. in Germany it's possible to ban political parties that have as their goal the overflow of the democratic order.
It's only been a couple hundred years or so for us so I guess this is just our turn then.
I feel like there's been talk about dismantling the CPB for a long time. I recall talk about it on Rush Limbaugh's radio show in the 90's.
Freedom means you're allowed to own enough rope to hang yourself with. We've always been one or two elections away from our own destruction.
NPR in particular has been an insane parody of leftism for at least a decade at this point. The fact that it took this long to lose funding is a testament to how strong it was as an institution.
Institutions are only as strong as their defenders and supporters - and like countless Empires before it, the USA has bled its institutions dry of credibility and/or resources over the past several decades in a futile attempt to satiate a handful of wealthy extremists.
This was entirely expected and predicted once neoliberalism took hold in the Democratic and Republican parties and began rotting out the central pillars of American Democracy and Empire.
Yep, billionaires-as-termites on the public infrastructure is an apt analogy
To be a little less glib or inflammatory:
A lot of people are learning that institutions aren’t these bulwarks against hostile actors, but in actuality are collections of people aligned on a given mission. For decades, Americans have neglected these people, cut funding to the helpful institutions, and granted far too much funding to negative ones. This culminated in the vilifying of these pillars and their members by a cadre of politicians backed by wealthy donors seeking change preferable to their personal agendas at the expense of the people, and it takes decades of continuous chipping away to get to the situation of today.
None of this is sudden, new, or shocking to those of us who have been staying informed, consuming legitimate news sources, and doing proper research with high-quality reference material. To the average person who merely consumes Cable News or mass media, this may all feel very sudden or surprising and therefore reversible.
It’s not.
This has been an attack on democracy over 40 years in the making. Conservatives have been openly saying what they've wanted to do all the time, but most people thought there'd never be a moment where they'd actually have enough power to pull it off. Meanwhile, liberal politicians have and still are operating under the delusion that they don't have to pass laws when they gain power, they can merely cast feelings and hope that the courts will back that up.