Comment by zamalek
1 day ago
The think the premium that these devices suffer from is how niche they are. Mechanical is relatively niche to begin with (programmers and gamers, mostly). Then you add the idea of making a single large investment for the good of your health, and the pool gets even thinner. Just think of all the garbage chairs that people sit on in front of their computer; let alone keyboards, which they barely think of (until they get RSI, that is).
I'm currently designing one that is a crossover between the characorder and a Logitech vertical mouse (but not actually a mouse), and I hope to make it cheap. It has been going poorly, to say the least. The biggest problem so far is smaller hands, multiple designs scrapped when put in front of such a person. Maybe I should take inspiration from Svalboard instead? Furthermore, Average Joe is not going to tolerate the massive dependency on layers that these keyboards often have, so I'm still fighting in my head with an approach for that.
The Datahand / Svalboard branch is even more niche than a standard mech board. They are really designed for people who are facing injury, injured, or have been injured.
I'd encourage you to look at the Svalboard, I think it solves many of the issues you are running into. In the end, moving a large mouse is not good for someone with shoulder issues, the "Svalmouse" has been tried and solidly rejected. (Using a Svalboard hand as a mouse.)
If you want to discuss things, I'm sure you can find me on the Svalboard discord. :)
I'm not sure you understood me: it looks like the ergo mouse (form factor, ergonomics) but is most definitely not a mouse. As I said though, it seems more difficult to get a keyboard to fit a variety of hands in this form-factor.
Without a hand in it, yeah you might think that. But it is easily 2x the length, and 2-3x the width of my Pulsar X2mini.
I don't think anyone would mistake it for a mouse.
1 reply →
That sounds really cool! I'd love to see it when you've got something more concrete. I assume you're already aware of the KeyMouse and the AlphaGrip?
https://www.keymouse.com/ https://alphagrip.com/
I don't think the layering needs to be as big a deal as one might assume. I mentioned in the post, but in many ways I think layering is easier to deal with than larger keyboards, and not only that but also culturally small-keyboard users are increasingly okay with using layers, e.g. the tiny-keyboard gamer crowd, or even most laptops now have a dedicated Fn layer in addition to the traditional shift, ctrl, and alt. So long as you don't go overboard with it I think it shouldn't be that intimidating.
I grabbed an alphagrip from the ewaste bin at my local hackspace a few years ago. Gave it a solid week - which was enough for me to get at least marginally competent with the layout. I found it extremely awkward. I think the compact controller style forces your wrists into an awkward angle, so any advantages of minimizing fingers motion is compromised by the awkward neutral position. Sloppy back switch mechanisms and a really bad trackball on top.
Too uncomfortable to use full time, to awkward to hunt and peck for an occasional couch/TV navigation keyboard - It went back in the ewaste bin.
I've been on a kinesis advantage 360 for a few years, after an ergodox and the older fixed size Advantages. Been eyeing the Svalboard, thanks for sharing your experiences!
Nice! I've never managed to try one myself, but I did assume something like that would be the case. To be fair to them, they never really promise hand ergonomics — just the freedom to type while in weird positions. I guess it's kind of the opposite of the Svalboard, in that way. If I had problems sitting in a conventional typing position, maybe that tradeoff would be worth it.
I love the Advantages and I really missed the bowling when I moved to the Ergodox — it remains my only real complaint with that keyboard family.
Glad I could be of help!
More things to ~steal~ take inspiration from, thank you :). If I'm completely naive with my approach, I would have 5 fingers * 4 directions * 2 hands. That's a paltry 40 keys. To make matters worse, some of them are sub-optimal: the ring finger isn't great at sideways movements (at least on my hand). 35-40 keys is end-game enthusiast level minimalism.