Comment by bad_username
3 days ago
> That I was born in the capital of the world’s richest country is one of the greatest strokes of luck in my life—a pure accident of timing and gametes. There is no way to pay back this good fortune, and wallowing in guilt over it would do nothing, either.
Why in the world does the author have to feel so bad about beibg lucky in some way? How does luck deserve the feeling of guilt? This has to be as unhealthy as exercise is healthy.
Grateful, yes, appreciative, absolutely, motivated to do good, of course. Having to pay "back" (to whom?), feeling guilty? Absurd and corrosive
When you see how much suffering is allotted to those less lucky than yourself it’s natural to feel a little bad or guilty. It shows that you care about the wellbeing of others. Not helpful to beat yourself up but to shrug your shoulders and go “sucks to suck” is bad.
I've traveled to some of the poorest parts of the world. I try to donate regularly to the less fortunate. Yet, I've never felt guilt. What does guilt have to do with admitting the world is a cruel place?
The word "faith" is sufficient to describe the discordance here.
A person cannot be reasoned out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
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Why do you donate? Do you owe them anything? No. Yet, you still donate. But how much do you donate? Why that amount and not nearly everything? Surely there are people in need!
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Noblesse oblige used to be a virtue among the noble but it seems now people consider it "Absurd and corrosive"
OP said of the author:
> Why in the world does the author have to feel so bad about beibg lucky in some way? How does luck deserve the feeling of guilt?
The author themselves said:
> That I was born in the capital of the world’s richest country is one of the greatest strokes of luck in my life—a pure accident of timing and gametes. There is no way to pay back this good fortune, and wallowing in guilt over it would do nothing, either.
You mentioned "noblesse oblige" which is
> a French expression that means that nobility extends beyond mere entitlement, requiring people who hold such status to fulfill social responsibilities
It seems that everybody is talking past one another in this exchange. The author acknowledges that guilt over this is unproductive and implicitly admonishes readers of means to help those less fortunate in the same paragraph:
> The quiet miracle of charity and global aid is that the uneven distribution of global wealth creates an asymmetry by which relatively trivial amounts of money from the rich can prevent immense suffering and death among the poor.
One can simultaneously shed feelings of guilt over their fortunate socioeconomic position and give to those less fortunate. These two things are not mutually exclusive. To say that somebody should feel bad over something over which they had no control is nothing more than a secular version of original sin. I know I'd prefer to have a privileged class that pays it forward out of an intrinsic motivation to do good instead of a negative one like guilt... seems more stable and less prone to class warfare, but then again I'm no historian or anthropologist.
Good old colonial times, free of workplace regulations
The author doesn’t say they feel bad about being lucky. Quite to the contrary, they are implying that one shouldn’t feel bad about it. One might feel a certain responsibility from particularly good fortune, however.
I am confused. Just in that small excerpt you quoted it reads "wallowing in guilt over it would do nothing, either", explicitly rejecting the larger part of idea you are critizing?
Because its not preemptive, this is them reaching the right side of the guilt bell curve
For people raised to be susceptible to guilt from a young age
What on earth are you talking about? The text you quote says literally "wallowing in guilt over it would do nothing" and you're asking "How does luck deserve the feeling of guilt?"???
Surely I'm missing something.
Most communication isn’t a legal contract, and a lot of meaning is implicit, not just what is explicitly said.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the statements you mentioned, but "wallowing in guilt over it would do nothing" implies wallowing in guilt is a natural or even expected feeling. The person you’re replying to is questioning why someone would wallow in guilt in the first place.
You don't see why people might feel something (including guilt) upon realising most of their place in life comes from luck and factors beyond their control?
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Guilt? Maybe not. Feeling bad about seeing all the injustice in the world and wanting to change it is pretty natural.
The world is unjust and 99.9% of it is not our fault. It's caused by nature and other people and bad luck and history and bad systems. But nonetheless, many important institutions exist to make the world somewhat less unjust. This happens because people make it happen.
I think you might feel differently if you spent some time in sub saharan Africa. I went for the first time this year and was amazed at the warmth and generosity of the people I met. I was also shocked at how solvable most of their problems are with even just a little bit of money. Like I felt guilty, not in like a pay back way but in a "wow i can't believe how much time this lady would save if this village had can openers" kind of way.
I guess it is the same as taking a multiple-choice test, filling it out randomly and getting a perfect score.
Yes, you are lucky. But also: you should feel guilty about it.
Same with random things happening in your life and turning out well. If you don't know why they happened then who says you will be lucky the next time? Better feel a little guilty and try to understand how you can turn the odds your way (and perhaps also so others can benefit).
Why is the guilt necessary?
The guilt is a reminder of the cognitive debt.
My family literally died on the boat coming to the USA, leaving only a 9 year old girl orphan, another leaving a teenage girl orphan arriving alone in the USA. Luck had nothing to do with it. Some brave ass tough as nails women did though. Honor the people that put in effort/sacrifice to get your here. They were real, not some nebulous magical 'luck'.
> Why in the world does the author have to feel so bad about beibg lucky in some way?
For the same reason you have survivors guilt. When you see the similarity in others, ie empathy, and you see a divergent fate from yourself (either positive or negative), you can feel an incongruence when real world picks vastly different outcomes. This is deeply human, and likely goes further back to primates or even mammals.
Conversely, this is the sympathetic effect that can trick people into buying lottery tickets because if they see a ”nobody” winning big, ”they can too”, despite the odds. Or the American version: working at Walmart and seeing a billionaire on TV and thinking ”that’s me, soon”.
Recognizing the luck of birth conditions isn’t any different. I can relate because they are extremely strong predictors of welfare and success, but it’s also not something I go around and dwell on or causes me any pain. I think most people who get frustrated with others recognizing their own privilege is it can undermine their sense of identity, such as ”everything i have is a result of my individual hard work, and those who have less are lazy”. You can build a false identity on either premise.
Its to preempt "oh you are so lucky" distraction
I don't know about the author specifically but in many different cultures people have different understanding about what being rich means.
There are many concepts in christianity, islam etc. on it and varies a lot. In some cultures being rich is viewed as a mission given by god to do something great with it for example. In others its said that property is owned by the god and you are just given some limited time to use it for the good of humanity and preserve it, So it's not something to be proud of and you may feel sorry that others were not given such a mission.
These things not only depend on the specific religion, i.e. Christianity vs Islam but also within stuff like Protestantism and Catholicism.
Lots of stuff that the current right wing American narrative freaks out on is just a school of thought among Christians, Jews and Muslims. Many time those people are not woke or PC or whatever, just Christians that are taught by their parents to be modest and avoid bing flamboyant on their wealth. Even when people are not religious, these things run deep and defines your worldview.
The writer didn't actually say they feel "guilty" about it, nor that they should feel "guilty" about it.
But that term triggers libertarian sociopaths. Any idea of care for others as a priority threatens their desire to be allowed to take whatever they can.
The USA being the richest country is also somewhat debatable, especially when you consider the access to health services for the average citizen.
If we're talking about good fortune, you'd probably be better off being born in Norway or something like that.