Comment by calf
1 day ago
As to general consensus, Hinton gave a recent talk, and he seemed adamant that neural networks (which LLMs are) really are doing reasoning. He gives his reasons for it. Is Hinton considered an outlier or?
1 day ago
As to general consensus, Hinton gave a recent talk, and he seemed adamant that neural networks (which LLMs are) really are doing reasoning. He gives his reasons for it. Is Hinton considered an outlier or?
A) Hinton is quite vocal about desiring to be an outsider/outlier as he says it is what lets him innovate.
B) He is also famous for his Doomerism, which often depends on machines doing "reasoning".
So...it's complicated, and we all suffer from confirmation bias.
This is sloppy, I was asking about scientific consensus from the perspective of the prior commenter as a conference-goer. I am not asking for opinions bordering on ad hominems of Hinton or any other scientist, please refrain from that style of misinformation.
I think Hinton uses terms like reasoning and creativity and consciousness in a way that are different from my own embeddings.
I recently had fun asking Gemini to compare how Wittgenstein and Chomsky would view calling a large transformer that was trained entirely on a synthetic 'language' (in my case symbols that encode user behaviour in an app) a 'language' or not. And then, for the killer blow, whether an LLM that is trained on Perl is a language model.
My point being that whilst Hinton is a great and all, I don't think I can quite pin down his definitions of the precise words like reasoning etc. Its possible for people to have opposite meanings for the same words (Wittgenstein famously had two contradictory approaches in his lifetime). In the case of Hinton, I can't quite pin down how loosely or precisely he is using the terms.
A forward-only transformer like GPT can only do symbolic arithmetic to the depth of its layers, for example. And I don't think the solution is to add more layers.
Of course humans are entirely neuro and we somehow manage to 'reason'. So YMMV.
Link to the talk?
It was a Royal Institution public lecture, "Will AI outsmart human intelligence? - with 'Godfather of AI' Geoffrey Hinton", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdziSLYzHw
Ultimately I somehwat disagreed with some of Hintons points in this talk, and after some thought I came up with specific reasons/doubts, and yet at the same time, his intuitive explanations helped shift my views somewhat as well.