Comment by Arech
2 days ago
This is super annoying how SW vendors forcefully deprecate good enough hardware.
Genuinely hate that, as Mozilla has deprived me from Firefox's translation feature because of that.
2 days ago
This is super annoying how SW vendors forcefully deprecate good enough hardware.
Genuinely hate that, as Mozilla has deprived me from Firefox's translation feature because of that.
The problem is that your "good enough" is someone else's "woefully inadequate", and sticking to the old feature sets is going to make the software horribly inefficient - or just plain unusable.
I'm sure there's someone out there who believe their 8086 is still "good enough", so should we restrict all software to the features supported by an 8086: 16-bit computations only, 1 MB of memory, no multithreading, no SIMD, no floats, no isolation between OS and user processes? That would obviously be ludicrous.
At a certain point it just doesn't make any sense to support hardware that old anymore. When it is cheaper to upgrade than to keep running the old stuff, and only a handful of people are sticking with the ancient hardware for nostalgic reasons, should that tiny group really be holding back basically your entire user base?
Ah, com'on, spare me from these strawman arguments. Good enought is good enough. If F-Droid wasn't worried about that, you definitely have no reasons to do that for them.
"A tiny group is holding back everyone" is another silly strawman argument - all decent packaging/installation systems support providing different binaries for different architectures. It's just a matter of compiling just another binary and putting it into a package. Nobody is being hold back by anyone, you just can't make a more silly argument than that...
But it isn't good enough. SIMD provides measurable improvements to some people's code. To those people what we had before isn't good enough. Sure for the majority SIMD provides no noticeable benefit and so what we had before is good enough, but that isn't everybody.
3 replies →
OTOH, if software wants to take advantage of modern features, it becomes hell to maintain if you have to have flags for every possible feature supported by CPUID. It's also unreasonable to expect maintainers to package dozens of builds for software that is unlikely to be used.
There's some guidelines[1][2] for developers to follow for a reasonable set of features, where they only need to manage ~4 variants. In this proposal the lowest set of features include SSE4.1, which is basically includes nearly any x86_64 CPU from the past 15 years. In theory we could use a modern CPU to compile the 4 variants and ship them all in a FatELF, so we only need to distribute one set of binaries. This of course would be completely impractical if we had to support every possible CPU's distinct features, and the binaries would be huge.
[1]:https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-July/143289.h...
[2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Microarchitecture_level...
In most cases (and this was the case of Mozilla I referred to) it's only a matter of compiling code that already have all support necessary. They are using some upstream component that works perfectly fine on my architecture. They just decided to drop it, because they could.
It's not only your own software, but also its dependencies. The link above is for glibc, and is specifically addressing incompatibliy issues between different software. Unless you are going to compile your own glibc (for example, doing Linux From Scratch), you're going to depend on features shipped by someone else. In this case that means either baseline, with no SIMD support at all, or level A, which includes SSE4.1. It makes no sense for developers to keep maintaining software for 20 year old CPUs when they can't test it.
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The F-Drois builds have been slow for years and with how old their servers apparently are that isn't even surprising in retrospective.